Definitely a dark time. I am not sure I would connect the dots in such an extreme line. Velocity of change and technology does not afford a thousand years of darkness. Difficult to know right now where this Trump inspired realignment is heading, but I agree that it is tearing down the WWII alinement that has served so well. Agree whit your description of the dangerous drift being created and the void created. Thank you for the thought provoking post.
Since TDS originally referred to people who were deranged by Trump, and then was adopted by Trump to mean people who didn’t worship him I have started using the initials DTS. Deranged Trump syndrome.
Wow David you are a real hoot. I’ll bet you are fun to be with at a party! You want to imagine a real dark age? Picture this: Two trillion dollars added to the debt every year and then the US going bankrupt within the next ten years triggering a world wide depression lasting ten to fifteen years. Your doom and gloom scenario is chicken feed compared to this. Rather than disparage Trump and DOGE you need to get on your knees every night and praise whatever you worship for putting an Administration in power who sees the problem and has the wherewithal and courage to do something about it.
After his last stint - even when we take out COVID - Trump added $4.8 TRILLION to the national debt[1] by doing things like engaging in stupid trade wars and paying subsidies to farmers to make up for the lost foreign sales[2].
I'm not sure why all you folks with calloused knees think that this time will be different.
No need for me to speak for David, but I doubt when he gets on his knees at the end of the day that he has any need to worship Trump. Expect he has his sights higher. Amen.
Where did I say that he worshipped Trump? He is a Christian so worships Jesus. Hopefully he has read The Bible thoroughly enough to see that God often uses “misfits” to accomplish His purposes.
Misfits, maybe. People in open rebellion to Christ’s teachings and who are leading large parts of the church away from the Gospel? Unlikely.
The qualifier there is that God may be using Trump as an instrument of judgment. I’ve often heard that America must be removed from the world stage for end time events to occur. We may be watching that in real time.
Another alternative is that this may be national judgement that many evangelicals have told me to expect for our sinful culture.
As John Calvin said, “ When God wants to judge a nation, He gives them wicked rulers,” but I don’t claim any special insight. I just read the Bible.
No, Mr. Thornton, we may actually be at the precipice of coming out of a dark age.
David Thornton's article suggests Trump's policies risk ushering in a new Dark Age, citing troubling historical parallels. His concerns hold some merit, but they overlook a larger possibility: this could be an opportunity to shift toward a more equitable, less domineering world—one that moves beyond the shadows of past oversteps.
Thornton regrets America's retreat from global leadership, likening it to Rome's fall and the end of Pax Americana. Yet that role has a darker side often glossed over. Post-World War II stability came at a steep price: millions died in U.S.-led conflicts—over 2 million in Vietnam, hundreds of thousands in Iraq. The CIA's overthrow of elected governments, such as Iran in 1953, Guatemala in 1954, and Chile in 1973 (and on through today), fueled chaos and authoritarianism, contradicting the democratic ideals we tout. Trump's pullback, imperfect as it is, might prompt a reckoning with that history and encourage other nations to shoulder more responsibility. A smaller U.S. presence doesn't necessarily mean collapse—it could foster a world that stands together, provided we don't fully withdraw.
On trade, Thornton warns tariffs signal economic decline. Global trade has raised living standards, but it's also hollowed out American industries and widened inequality. Trump's aggressive stance aims to regain ground, and while prices rise—ironically including MAGA gear—it could boost domestic production. Market expert Edward Dowd and others argue this shift is overdue, noting our economy's grown too reliant on Wall Street's financial maneuvering rather than tangible goods and services. The stock market's dips reflect uncertainty, not ruin; economies have weathered such transitions before.
Thornton's alarm peaks with healthcare and science, citing cuts like DOGE layoffs and RFK Jr.'s vaccine skepticism. Federal research is vital, but bureaucracy often slows it down. A jolt could refocus efforts, if handled well. RFK Jr.'s views aren't groundless—a 2021 Toxicology Reports study links mRNA COVID vaccines to issues like myocarditis, backed by over 1 million VAERS reports by 2023. Childhood vaccines lack pre-approval placebo testing, and a 2017 Journal of Translational Science study tied them to higher chronic illness rates. These aren't wild theories but demands for clarity, too often dismissed. Science thrives on challenge, not complacency.
Thornton envisions a Chinese-led order if America steps back, presuming our goodwill is unmatched. But our overreach has sparked resentment, and scaling down could ease tensions if paired with strategic engagement. The Dark Ages followed total breakdown—this moment offers a purposeful turn. We're not locked into decline; we're at a point to reassess what works. Exposing corruption and profiteering hurts, but the administration's and DOGE's efforts at greater gummint transparency are a necessary step if we hope to mature as a nation and a world.
Dark ages are on the way all right, but not 1 thousand years worth, praise God. Only 7 years, called the tribulation, followed by 1,000 years of reign by Jesus Christ Himself. He will straighten this mess out and peace and prosperity will prevail.
At the time of Caesars assassination, Rome was in a deteriorating state. Caesar and his Uncle Marius before him were popular social reformers in the sense of increasing the influence of what we would call the middle class. ROME waS formally divided into 3 classes, Senatorial, Equites and Plebian. The upper classes were well on their way to being sexually degenerate, including abortion, and various forms of debauchery including lavish feasts with a bulimic chaser, unfaithful husband's and wives, open homosexuality, and transvestites. The territory Rome controlled and the administrative state had become too large to be managed by the Senate and disorder was rampant including rich teens marauding through groups of ordinary citizens, harassing, and robbing without consequences. Caesar himself was no angel and did intend to make himself emperor with the help of the nation's richest citizen. The change to an empire did for a while contain some of the rot by better administration, but as wealth and poverty became more concentrated, crime among the poor and debauchery among the wealthy grew. Successive families of the upper class died out due to no reproduction and successive members of the poor relied on "bread and circuses", because there was no work. Imports from the provinces were cheaper than food and wine grown on small farms locally, and free farmers went into debt and they and their families were sold into slavery to repay the loan. The middle class kept things going for about 400 years as things got worse and worse, because as some family prospered, they fell into the same vices as the wealthy families that were dying out. Then, finally into this mix came hoards of uncivilized immigrants and that finally broke the back of the Empire.
Did I mention that things got so bad in Rome about 100 years before the collapse that the emperor moved the capital hundreds of miles away to Constantinople? Or that the only groups that survived the mess were the Christians and Jews? While both Christians and Jews had a desert sense of sexual morality to help them survive, the Christians actively sought converts and fed people after services (paid for by the wealthier members) and did not require circumcision.
Maybe we should retire the TDS trope since most of the stuff we Trump critics have been concerned about came to pass or are in process. We are already seeing worse stuff than I predicted.
Definitely a dark time. I am not sure I would connect the dots in such an extreme line. Velocity of change and technology does not afford a thousand years of darkness. Difficult to know right now where this Trump inspired realignment is heading, but I agree that it is tearing down the WWII alinement that has served so well. Agree whit your description of the dangerous drift being created and the void created. Thank you for the thought provoking post.
I wouldn’t call a prediction, but a musing. Still, it’s odd and alarming that Trump policy resembles the worst aspects of the Dark Ages.
These past 60 days have been a musing, just keep your wits about you notice the humor, satire, and irony
In these days, I keep asking WWHSD?*
*(What would Hari Seldon do?)
I would rather ask Danieel.
ChatGPT is is! :-)
Just planting a seed. Requires a fertile mind for it to grow. Keep striving you have a chance to get there.
Since TDS originally referred to people who were deranged by Trump, and then was adopted by Trump to mean people who didn’t worship him I have started using the initials DTS. Deranged Trump syndrome.
Wow David you are a real hoot. I’ll bet you are fun to be with at a party! You want to imagine a real dark age? Picture this: Two trillion dollars added to the debt every year and then the US going bankrupt within the next ten years triggering a world wide depression lasting ten to fifteen years. Your doom and gloom scenario is chicken feed compared to this. Rather than disparage Trump and DOGE you need to get on your knees every night and praise whatever you worship for putting an Administration in power who sees the problem and has the wherewithal and courage to do something about it.
After his last stint - even when we take out COVID - Trump added $4.8 TRILLION to the national debt[1] by doing things like engaging in stupid trade wars and paying subsidies to farmers to make up for the lost foreign sales[2].
I'm not sure why all you folks with calloused knees think that this time will be different.
[1] https://www.crfb.org/papers/trump-and-biden-national-debt
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_farmer_bailouts
No need for me to speak for David, but I doubt when he gets on his knees at the end of the day that he has any need to worship Trump. Expect he has his sights higher. Amen.
Where did I say that he worshipped Trump? He is a Christian so worships Jesus. Hopefully he has read The Bible thoroughly enough to see that God often uses “misfits” to accomplish His purposes.
Misfits, maybe. People in open rebellion to Christ’s teachings and who are leading large parts of the church away from the Gospel? Unlikely.
The qualifier there is that God may be using Trump as an instrument of judgment. I’ve often heard that America must be removed from the world stage for end time events to occur. We may be watching that in real time.
Another alternative is that this may be national judgement that many evangelicals have told me to expect for our sinful culture.
As John Calvin said, “ When God wants to judge a nation, He gives them wicked rulers,” but I don’t claim any special insight. I just read the Bible.
So the trillions Trump will add is cool because the oligarchy will benefit?
No, Mr. Thornton, we may actually be at the precipice of coming out of a dark age.
David Thornton's article suggests Trump's policies risk ushering in a new Dark Age, citing troubling historical parallels. His concerns hold some merit, but they overlook a larger possibility: this could be an opportunity to shift toward a more equitable, less domineering world—one that moves beyond the shadows of past oversteps.
Thornton regrets America's retreat from global leadership, likening it to Rome's fall and the end of Pax Americana. Yet that role has a darker side often glossed over. Post-World War II stability came at a steep price: millions died in U.S.-led conflicts—over 2 million in Vietnam, hundreds of thousands in Iraq. The CIA's overthrow of elected governments, such as Iran in 1953, Guatemala in 1954, and Chile in 1973 (and on through today), fueled chaos and authoritarianism, contradicting the democratic ideals we tout. Trump's pullback, imperfect as it is, might prompt a reckoning with that history and encourage other nations to shoulder more responsibility. A smaller U.S. presence doesn't necessarily mean collapse—it could foster a world that stands together, provided we don't fully withdraw.
On trade, Thornton warns tariffs signal economic decline. Global trade has raised living standards, but it's also hollowed out American industries and widened inequality. Trump's aggressive stance aims to regain ground, and while prices rise—ironically including MAGA gear—it could boost domestic production. Market expert Edward Dowd and others argue this shift is overdue, noting our economy's grown too reliant on Wall Street's financial maneuvering rather than tangible goods and services. The stock market's dips reflect uncertainty, not ruin; economies have weathered such transitions before.
Thornton's alarm peaks with healthcare and science, citing cuts like DOGE layoffs and RFK Jr.'s vaccine skepticism. Federal research is vital, but bureaucracy often slows it down. A jolt could refocus efforts, if handled well. RFK Jr.'s views aren't groundless—a 2021 Toxicology Reports study links mRNA COVID vaccines to issues like myocarditis, backed by over 1 million VAERS reports by 2023. Childhood vaccines lack pre-approval placebo testing, and a 2017 Journal of Translational Science study tied them to higher chronic illness rates. These aren't wild theories but demands for clarity, too often dismissed. Science thrives on challenge, not complacency.
Thornton envisions a Chinese-led order if America steps back, presuming our goodwill is unmatched. But our overreach has sparked resentment, and scaling down could ease tensions if paired with strategic engagement. The Dark Ages followed total breakdown—this moment offers a purposeful turn. We're not locked into decline; we're at a point to reassess what works. Exposing corruption and profiteering hurts, but the administration's and DOGE's efforts at greater gummint transparency are a necessary step if we hope to mature as a nation and a world.
Dark ages are on the way all right, but not 1 thousand years worth, praise God. Only 7 years, called the tribulation, followed by 1,000 years of reign by Jesus Christ Himself. He will straighten this mess out and peace and prosperity will prevail.
At the time of Caesars assassination, Rome was in a deteriorating state. Caesar and his Uncle Marius before him were popular social reformers in the sense of increasing the influence of what we would call the middle class. ROME waS formally divided into 3 classes, Senatorial, Equites and Plebian. The upper classes were well on their way to being sexually degenerate, including abortion, and various forms of debauchery including lavish feasts with a bulimic chaser, unfaithful husband's and wives, open homosexuality, and transvestites. The territory Rome controlled and the administrative state had become too large to be managed by the Senate and disorder was rampant including rich teens marauding through groups of ordinary citizens, harassing, and robbing without consequences. Caesar himself was no angel and did intend to make himself emperor with the help of the nation's richest citizen. The change to an empire did for a while contain some of the rot by better administration, but as wealth and poverty became more concentrated, crime among the poor and debauchery among the wealthy grew. Successive families of the upper class died out due to no reproduction and successive members of the poor relied on "bread and circuses", because there was no work. Imports from the provinces were cheaper than food and wine grown on small farms locally, and free farmers went into debt and they and their families were sold into slavery to repay the loan. The middle class kept things going for about 400 years as things got worse and worse, because as some family prospered, they fell into the same vices as the wealthy families that were dying out. Then, finally into this mix came hoards of uncivilized immigrants and that finally broke the back of the Empire.
Did I mention that things got so bad in Rome about 100 years before the collapse that the emperor moved the capital hundreds of miles away to Constantinople? Or that the only groups that survived the mess were the Christians and Jews? While both Christians and Jews had a desert sense of sexual morality to help them survive, the Christians actively sought converts and fed people after services (paid for by the wealthier members) and did not require circumcision.
Have you considered seeking treatment for TDS?
I'd be a bit more circumspect throwing out the "TDS" term. Chris Hansen may still be on the prowl.
https://www.mediaite.com/crime/pro-trump-lawmaker-behind-bill-to-name-tds-a-mental-illness-jailed-same-day-for-allegedly-soliciting-teen-for-sex/
Chalking up every criticism to TDS is lazy and ultimately just way to end a discussion. If you have any actual critiques, write em out.
Maybe we should retire the TDS trope since most of the stuff we Trump critics have been concerned about came to pass or are in process. We are already seeing worse stuff than I predicted.