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SGman's avatar

As much as it sucks, we do live with a binary choice: either Harris or Trump will be POTUS. Harris will have positions that people don't like: "you can't please everyone" is a truism for a reason. The important thing is that she falls into the range of normality for our liberal political system. Trump and MAGA do not.

The opposite of conservative is not liberal, the opposite of conservative is radical. The opposite of liberal is authoritarian. The function of conservatism is to conserve liberalism.

MAGA's entire goal is to redefine conservatism to be synonymous with authoritarianism. It's not only a moral hazard to conservatives, it's an existential threat to the Consitution, individual liberty, and the rule of law.

The only way to get to "I will vote for neither" is if you think they are actually equally bad options. That's just not true.

Perhaps another way to think of this: how would you vote if yours was the deciding vote between the two?

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SGman's avatar

Gonna quote Joshua Reed Eakle's post for those it applies to:

"“Why would you vote for someone who disagrees with you so much on policy?”

“You’ve said you didn’t support Kamala in the past, why the hypocrisy?”

The answer is simple:

My first litmus test for whether I support someone is a simple question:

“Will this person preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution?”

Trump failed that test.

His actions before and after January 6th, his promises of retribution after 2024, and his praise of authoritarians like Putin and Xi prove one thing:

He’s an existential threat to the Constitution, the rule of law, and America's allies across the world.

I had hoped he’d lose the primary or not run again... he didn’t.

I had rooted for other candidates in the DNC... they're not the nominee.

Trump is the nominee, and I will put policy aside to support the most well-positioned candidate that can defeat him.

2024 will be the first time in my entire life I will be voting for a Democrat for President.

I can sleep peacefully knowing I’ll be able to tell my kids I made that decision in this historic moment."

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Steve Berman's avatar

Well there's your answer. You literally owe Kamala your vote since she has the only chance to stop Trump. It wouldn't matter if she ran saying she was a Marxist as long as she didn't say she would overthrow the government, it's all good. In fact, it doesn't matter what her policy is, and the Democrats should lie their little heads off about it since it doesn't matter if they tell the truth about anything short of overthrowing the government.

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SGman's avatar

Let's be clear: I'm a Democrat, and have been one my entire political life. This election is easy for me.

The considerations you have to deal with are far more complex - and the above statements are solely intended to provide food for thought in terms of how to think about what your conservatism means, and how that meaning affects your approach towards the election.

To make that this is a choice between equally bad options just isn't based in reality. It's a shame that we cannot have simple arguments about policy: how much to spend on this issue, or cut from that one - but that's where we are, and what we have to deal with.

That said, you may appreciate her latest ad: https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1818414386362409091

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Cooter's avatar

Page 3, first paragraph, first sentence...

"We urge the Committee additionally to reject President Trump's proposal for funding to hire new Border Patrol personnel at this time."

https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2024/07/04.27.2018-DHS.pdf

Makes one wonder about the veracity of the other points in the ad.

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SGman's avatar

Lovely letter from 2018.

The lovely thing about time is that it is linear and always marches forward. There was support for Bill Lankford's bill, and Trump had it killed off 'cause it would remove a wedge issue. Thems the facts.

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Cooter's avatar

...and time can erase history.

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Rob's avatar

The gaslighter in chief spoke again at an event organised by Turning Point Action:

“Christians, get out and vote, just this time. You won’t have to do it anymore. Four more years, you know what, it will be fixed.”

Fits perfectly with your article.

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Steve Berman's avatar

Yeah you heard what he said just before that? "Christians, we are going to own this country so much that nobody will need to vote again. It'll be us, ruling forever like Jesus." And after it, he said, "I intend to be a good dictator. Unless you're one of those election stealing democrats. We'll lock them all up like the animals they are."

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Rob's avatar

Remember when Jesus was a dictator that locked up political opponents? Me neither. I doubt this man has ever read or knows anything of the Bible.

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Kim's avatar

Steve, is that an actual quote?

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Bill Pearson's avatar

Like Kim, is this in fact true Steve...or are you gaslighting us?

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MJ's avatar

I didn’t hear that but I am sure you are taking it completely out of context!

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MJ's avatar

I cannot believe that you don’t see all the problems with this article! First Trumps statement was completely false! You forgot to mention that the rest of Trumps statement was “ because it will be a landslide”. If you can’t talk truth, you should just keep quiet. Trump lies and exaggerates but Democrats and the MSNews media lie to keep Democrats in power. Goodbye Democracy. You seem to forget that Trump was President for 4 years.

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Chris J. Karr's avatar

Landslides don't mean that you get to carry the excess votes over into the next election.

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Bill Pearson's avatar

Help me out here Myrna; what difference does it make with the "rest of the statement?" Literally, even with a blowout there would still be an election in 2028?

Nice try though eh?

Here's his quote: "You won’t have to do it anymore. Four more years, you know what, it will be fixed, it will be fine, you won’t have to vote anymore, my beautiful Christians." At least Tom Cotton just said trump was making a joke.

I'm not sure why that would be funny; to anyone.

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MJ's avatar

You didn’t listen to him directly. He clearly meant you don’t have to vote for me AGAIN. The MSM always distorts Trumps word but Biden, the liar and Kamala’s word salad, stupidity and horrible record suddenly become ok! Try reading National Review and listen to Brett Baer on Fox, you might get educated.

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Bill Pearson's avatar

Surely you freaking jest.

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Bill Pearson's avatar

"I might hold my breath for the next 100 days. Care to join me?"

No Steve and it"s not even close to a reasonable question. Here's why: I suspect (if you give her a chance) you will have a far better understanding of her positions (which you may not like) once we get to and through the convention. On the other hand, we know what trump's position is; me, me and only me.

I won't repeat the quote Kim posted below but someone from the right please tell me how you cast a vote for a guy who says vote for me and you'll never have to worry about it again? Please, PLEASE, tell me something other than "it's just trump being trump."

If Harris said shit like this the right would explode. The funny thing is we are way past exploding over trumpisms. Instead we get pearls of wisdom from guys like Curtis telling us Harris is a crook. Really? Any proof? I'll wait, take your time. I guess you can just scream DEI and she "slept her way to the top," and all will be good.

Frankly i'm tired of false equivalencies. There's no comparison to the jackassery of trump compared to Biden, Harris or almost any other human being walking the planet.

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Steve Berman's avatar

Ok. I give her a chance. Suspicion of reasonableness is not the same as the actual thing. What if Harris says “from the river to the sea?” What if she says “unlimited border crossing with free housing?” What if she says she’ll ignore SCOTUS rulings?

And not liking Harris’s positions is a reason to potentially not vote for her. If it wasn’t, why bother knowing them at all. You’re saying we have no choice—we owe her our vote.

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MJ's avatar

That is 4 years of a chance! Everything you say about Trump, she is worse. She has no core!

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Bill Pearson's avatar

If and when she says those things, i am more than certain you and others will call them out Steve, that's as it should be. Until she does start saying really dumb stuff like trump, i'll give her the benefit of the doubt. In the meantime trump keeps crapping himself to try and stay relevant. Ultimately it will cost him votes from those who aren't part of the maga crowd.

I wouldn't argue those who dislike a candidates positions not supporting her/him. That's why they run elections. What i do expect is those who support trump being able to articulate what he means when he says bat-shit crazy stuff...you know like you wrote above if Harris went off the deep end with nonsense.

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Steve Berman's avatar

"The benefit of the doubt" might last 100 days. If I were Harris, I'd be in no hurry to take policy positions. It can only lose her votes. "Benefit of the doubt" is safer for her. Agree?

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Bill Pearson's avatar

JVL from the Bulwark said it best; this short campaign season is to her benefit. That works to her advantage, but she can't, in my opinion, ignore all policy positions.

For example: Her position regarding abortions is crystal clear. I know you aren't a fan of it, but you also are politically savvy enough to know the impact that subject has. She has to lean into it, and she has.

The tougher position will be the conflict between Israel and Hamas. I suspect she'll straddle the line, as many have done. It's not an easy answer, as all of us have come to understand. Her husband is Jewish, her running mate may be as well. Neither of those should suggest anything other than the importance of resolving the difficulties there. It would good if Bibi got out of the way, but you know he is caught in the same web that snared trump. Self protection.

The other issues, inflation, the border, education, law and order will all fall down on the side of normal democratic beliefs. Is that wrong or right? You'll have to be the judge and your answer when i asked you a week ago if you were voting for her was the right one; it depends on her positions.

What i full well expect is she won't step on landmines every time she takes the stage. What full well expect is trump will keep saying dumb stuff to try and make the news cycle. What i know is from reading you is that voting for "him" isn't an option.

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MJ's avatar

I disagree! She will step on land mines and the press will protect her and they will distort everything Trump says ie Trump is a liar. If you remember, Biden and all the democrats covered for his and her lies. You can’t trust a single word from the press and must read several other sources. Without a FREE PRESS, we don’t have a country!

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Jason Jones's avatar

Or how about free healthcare for illegal immigrants.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/kamala-harris-backs-publicly-funded-health-care-for-illegal-immigrants/amp/

I can go on and on. This is a small sample of her stupid statements and radical agenda. Just wait til people start learning about her history and ideology.

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Jason Jones's avatar

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/07/26/politics/kfile-kamala-harris-praised-defund-the-police-movement-in-june-2020

So this is not saying dumb things? I think she really believes this or she is just a disgusting typical political animal who says whatever is popular in the moment.

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Bill Pearson's avatar

Cool on using the way back machine to find quotes from 2019 and 2020 JJ. The problem of course is trump craps out stupid every time he takes the stage. I don't need to search the archives to find old dated positions. His brand of stupid is apparent every time he opens his mouth.

But wait, there's more; the cop and the criminal. The prosecutor and the prosecuted. The female and the felon. The guy who want's to pardon J6 thugs. The guy who thinks he is above the law. You really want to go there?

Good by me. Just let me know and we can begin comparing notes.

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Jason Jones's avatar

It is well documented she got appointments and political connections because she was Willie Brown’s “side chick”. People in her office nicknamed her “Heels up Harris”.

And let’s be real, if she were a white male who pulled barely 2% in the primary, she wouldn’t have been selected for Biden’s VP.

Even Liz Warren who pulled much better was overlooked. She checks one box whereas Kamala checks two. She satisfies the Left’s obsession with all things race and gender.

And apparently she is awful to work for, with an attrition rate of staff shaming Trump’s.

But the media will cover for her and prop her up as the next messiah like they did Obama.

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Bill Pearson's avatar

And now she's kicking ass and taking names and it's killing trump. Just keep insulting her with racial slurs and attacks on being a female; it will go a long with with the base and kill them with the mushy middle that will decide the outcome.

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Jason Jones's avatar

What racial slurs? Examples please.

Once her true abysmal record and her radical ideology is brought to the forefront, she will fall farther behind. Of course, the media will try to cover for the Leftists as usual.

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Jason Jones's avatar

What evidence do you have that she is kicking ass? She is neck and neck or behind in the polls within the traditional democratic (battleground) states.

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Bill Pearson's avatar

The polls in just now a week have changed dramatically. You know that and the momentum has shifted from the Saturday trump got shot.

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Jason Jones's avatar

She will get a natural bump because she just announced. That happens to all politicians. Her best campaign day is behind her, as James Carville said.

She now has to defend her record on inflation, immigration, etc, which is abysmal.

And her record as being a radical Leftist who advocated defunding the police and bailed out BLM rioters who were burning down buildings.

All you have to do is tie her to the failed Biden administration and show clips of her radical leftist statements.

She is only popular amongst the mainstream media, the leftist elites, not middle America. She will dip greatly once her record is exposed. Middle America will not vote her. The liberal blathering honeymoon will be over soon. Just watch.

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Cameron Sprow's avatar

"Kicking ass and taking names?" Really, Bill? Talk about gaslighting! Lol She isn't even giving Trump a flick on his arm, based on the latest polling that I saw, which has Trump still up 3 points nationally. Sorry, Bill, but if you are hitching your horse to Kamala's wagon, it's gonna come up lame.

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Bill Pearson's avatar

So here's the difference Cam and Jason: I'm not arrogant enough to believe she wins in November. I am smart enough to know Biden was dead in the water. You know as opposed to those right wing pundits who spent a couple of days speculating that Joe was dead. They never quit with the conspiracies do they? Worse yet, they are never held accountable. But then accountability isn't a quality the right embraces any more is it?

What i do know after 76 years on this earth is that momentum matters. This headline was from an AP new feed this morning: "Harris raised $200M in first week of White House campaign and signed up 170,000 volunteers." On top of that there has been 100,000 new voters registered since Joe stepped down.

Anyone in the trump camp that ignores this data does so at their own peril. Here's what else in know: Arrogance, is an ugly trait and trump just might be the most arrogant human being ever.

And, as long as we are chatting, help me understand trumps love for Hannibal Lecter?

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Cameron Sprow's avatar

Sorry, you got me there. Lol

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Bill Pearson's avatar

Curious comment C. Not trying to get anyone; especially you since you've made it abundantly clear you're not voting for either of them.

LOL back at ya.

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Curtis Stinespring's avatar

I believe the "sleeping" part is well known as is the part about lucrative political appointments. So, tell me the difference between Fanni and Nathan and Willie and Kamala except for the sex of the benefactor.

I'm not smart enough to discern the evil in Trump saying "vote for me and you'll never have to worry about it again". And I have read Kamala's positions and do not agree with any of them.

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Bill Pearson's avatar

Your words Curtis, kind of cute the way you framed it: "I'm not sure how you or anyone else knows that Kamala is not a crook." So are suggesting we should have to prove she's not a crook?

The funny thing is, we know, KNOW trump is a crook, a convicted felon and should be locked up. But what the hell, it worked well to paint Joe as part of the "Biden crime family." How's the proof/trial/conviction coming along on that process led by Comer et al? Ya, that's what i thought. Now you want to paint Harris with the same brush.

Finally, i would expect you not to like her policies. That's one thing; "corrupt to the bone" (your exact words yet again), but calling someone corrupt for a relationship they had 30 ago when she was single is a stretch. Now, if you want to use the banging someone other than your spouse as a measuring stick for corruption...look no further than your buddy trump. The man was cheating on his wives forever. Oh wait, it's different because he's a man and there's a different standard for them. Really?

And last but not least Curtis, i've read lots of your comments. You are a smart man and pretending you don't know or worse yet playing dumb about trump's latest word salad regarding coming elections is beneath you. It is what it is with him and it's killing him to be displaced in the press by Harris. So, he says stupid shit to get back above the fold. The worst part is all of you who will be voting for him act as if what he craps out of his mouth doesn't mean anything.

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Curtis Stinespring's avatar

Well Bill, it's about how she got those appointments. Sex among adults is their business except when it involves bilking the taxpayers And I don't care if Trump is a spotlight hog. How is that evil? The New York bookkeeping charges are nothing but political corruption and will eventually go away as there is no felony proven. Biased prosecutor, biased judge and biased jury.

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Bill Pearson's avatar

Appointments? Here's the information i found on line: "Available media reports show that former San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown had a relationship with Kamala Harris in the 1990s, years after he was separated from his wife.

In 1994, Capitol staffers described Harris as "Brown's girlfriend" when he appointed her to the California Medical Assistance Commission, the Los Angeles Times."

So, what others were there?

Doesn't matter does it? There's not a sin, not a crime, not an insane statement Harris could make that trump hasn't committed ten-fold. He is who and what he is. There-in is their problem.

Time will tell on the bookkeeping charges and frankly that's the least of my concerns. Jail time, not of any interest. Him going away, priceless.

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Curtis Stinespring's avatar

Here's a less varnished version of that portion of Kamala's History. I hope you can read the entire post.

From Shipwrecked Crew

https://substack.com/home/post/p-146882643

"She then enrolled at Hastings Law School (UC San Francisco), graduating in 1989. In 1990 she was hired as an entry-level Deputy District Attorney in Alameda County. Four years later Willie Brown -- with whom she was romantically involved -- appointed her to the Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board and the California Medical Assistance Commission. The Appeals Board position paid a salary of $97,000 a year -- far in excess of what she was making for the Alameda DA. She stayed in that position for only 6 months because the seat she filled had only 7 months left in its term. Her relationship with Willie must have lasted longer than six months, because with one month left in the term, Brown appointed her to the Medical Assistance Commission, a job that paid $72,000 a year, but with a full term of 4 years remaining. This came as Brown was about to be replaced as Speaker, with Republicans having captured a majority of Assembly seats for the first time in decades.

After 3 years as a newby Dep. DA, and four years as a Brown appointee on a medical commission, when her term was about to end she was hired by the San Francisco District Attorney to head up the “Career Criminal Division” of the Office -- supervising five experienced prosecutors — when Willie Brown was then the elected mayor of San Francisco."

T

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Bill Pearson's avatar

Thanks Curtis. Neither job paid much so i'm not sure how that's "bilking" taxpayers. On the other hand, trump passed on his 400k salary as president and then bilked the taxpayers by having the secret service stay in his properties. That sounds more like "bilking" to me, but i have a bias so i could be wrong.

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Cameron Sprow's avatar

Bravo, Steve, good piece! There is hope for you yet. Now just get David and Merrie on board, and these columns will start to be enjoyable reads.

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Curtis Stinespring's avatar

Never tuned in Infowars or Newsmax but I suspect I would view either more favorably than you do. I appreciate the comments on Goldwater My mom was a crazy democrat who supported LBJ and who even carried a sign that said Goldwater would send your sons to war. In less than two years, she had two sons on orders for Vietnam. My orders were changed so I became a radio test officer instead of a combat area cable platoon leader, but my youngest brother served as an Army Artillery weatherman and a Navy combat photographer in two different tours.

I'm not sure how you or anyone else knows that Kamala is not a crook. She got political appointments using questionable means. She and Willie Brown are just the west coast version of Fanni Willis and Nathan Wade. Corrupt to the bone.

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Steve Berman's avatar

I merely commented it is unlikely either site would link to us. I can stomach Newsmax in small portions when relatives watch it. But it is definitely a gaslighting site. I cannot stomach Infowars at all and Alex Jones deserves the bankruptcy he is getting.

I don’t know enough about Kamala to say whether she is a crook or not. Definitely a political animal.

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MJ's avatar

Agree.i lived in California when Willie Brown was there. My husband owned an art gallery on Sutter St. Willie Brown bought several pieces of art worth thousands of dollars and never paid for it. Crooks with power!

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Kim's avatar

Pass the gas mask. I’d like to plug my ears and recite la,la,a,la,la for the next 100 days. But then I’d miss gems like Trump telling Christians to vote and then they’ll never have to vote again. 🤦‍♀️. I’ll take what’s behind curtain D Bob. I just pray it’s not the booby prize.

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Jason Jones's avatar

In a way, we are choosing between two booby prizes.

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Kim's avatar

In my experience the choice has been that way for quite a while. But only one promises to be a dictator on day one.

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MJ's avatar

And the other one will destroy the country !

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Kim's avatar

Are you saying a dictator is a good thing?

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MJ's avatar

Agreed

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