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Cameron Sprow's avatar

Trump has made the world less safe overall? Compared to Biden? Come on, Steven, that's not even close to true.

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Steve Berman's avatar

Oh it’s absolutely true and objectively so. Biden’s entire policy was based on not expanding or risking expansion of any war. Biden would never have bombed Iran. Harris never would have done it. Trump’s policies have sent our allies running for cover because they don’t know if the U.S. has their back. Now you can argue that Trump’s unsafe policies might ultimately result in a better (more stable) outcome but you can’t say it’s safer than Biden.

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Cameron Sprow's avatar

"Biden's policy was based on not expanding, or risking expanding any war." You must have conveniently forgotten the billions and billions of dollars that Biden poured into Ukraine, to the point that we were seemingly fighting a proxy war against Russia. Every time Zelensky mentioned money, Biden said how much? "Trump's policies have sent our allies running for cover because they don't know if the U.S. has their back." Well, over the last few days they emerged from their shelters, because at the G7, they were singing Trump's praises. Biden's weak-in-the-knees policies toward China also had us on the verge of a showdown with them over Taiwan, but that potential hotspot seems to have at least cooled to a low simmer. In terms of the middle east as a trouble spot, I think with Iran and it's proxies having been set back years in terms of their ability to utilize terror against both us and Israel vs Oct. 2023, well, you get the picture.

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SGman's avatar

The Ukraine war has been going on since 2014. Aid was provided during Trump's first administration too.

Note very little hard cash has been provided: the vast majority of aid from the US was old equipment, with the value of said equipment not being depreciated cost (which you know since it's been discussed here previously).

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Cameron Sprow's avatar

Russia invaded Ukraine Feb. 24th, 2022. Sure, there have been cross border skirmishes since Russia annexed Crimea, but not a full scale war.

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SGman's avatar

Russia invaded when they entered Crimea, Luhansk, and Donetsk in 2014.

Escalation occurred in 2022, but the war was running the entire time.

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Cameron Sprow's avatar

Then you and I have different ideas of what constitutes a war.

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Cameron Sprow's avatar

Sorry, that was the Nato summit. My bad, but what I said still goes.

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Curtis Stinespring's avatar

I like ultimately.

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SGman's avatar

Trump Admin currently discussing helping Iran access $30bil of funding to build civilian nuclear power. At least when Obama released funds it was those belonging to Iran in the first place.

And I dunno that I'd say that Biden/Harris would never have taken military action against Iran if the situation arose where it was needed. Biden - rightly - viewed military force as a last resort, to be used when diplomacy efforts failed.

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glindarayepix's avatar

Yes, that easy throwaway line stopped me too. It takes an imagination to see the Middle East war spiraling into WWIII, while Ukraine is clearly the deadliest flash point we’ve faced. And Biden did everything he could to gin it up—and all for domestic political ends. That sounds like the definition of dangerous.

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Jay Berman's avatar

It does not take much imagination seeing either situation escalating into a wider conflict. Certainly not desirable. But ignoring problems can also lead to war. Not worth it to me wasting energy blaming past presidents. We will see how our current one navigates.

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SGman's avatar

Yes, we ignored Russia since Chechnya and Georgia - leading to Ukraine. The more we ignore Russia the more problems it will cause.

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PJ Cummings's avatar

Presidents Trump didn’t “(Create) a world giving those countries reason to fear enough to commit to spending 5 percent of their GDP on weapons.”

He simply held the rest of NATO accountable for their responsibility for mutual defense. He did so effectively.

Obama made an effort at doing the same, but to much less effect. Both were right to call it out.

I’d say that NATO created the world where Trump’s method was required.

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