"As I write this, the shooter has reportedly been arrested, but not identified."
There have been a couple of false positives on this front (at least two that I've seen). From what I'm reading, the killer is still at-large.
I'll join you in your condemnation of Kirk's murder. One of the concepts that underpins my view of justice is John Rawls' "veil of ignorance"[1], which states that one should work toward a society that serves and is just to everyone, because we should operate as if we don't know into which part of society that we would be born, and to acknowledge that the part we ARE born into is a cosmic accident. I wouldn't want someone shooting at me if I were talking at a college campus, ergo I don't want anyone shooting at anyone else expressing their First Amendment rights, including Charlie Kirk.
That said, if I were Kirk's wife and family, I would also want the most competent law enforcement apparatus on Earth pursuing Kirk's killer. Due to the political purges of FBI agents who worked January 6th cases[2], a Heritage intern appointed to run counter-terrorism because he is a dependable Yes-Man[3], appointing unqualified podcasters to run the FBI (Kash Patel and Dan Bongino), and FBI agents pulled away to chase after fruit pickers and day laborers[4], I'm skeptical that Kirk's family will receive the justice that they deserve.
Political violence is wrong of course, but please don’t think we can save our republic with a let’s all just get along mentality. The biggest threat to our republic is not political violence. That is a symptom not a cause. The biggest threat to our republic is the movement toward authoritarianism on the part of the current administration and its allies in the other branches of government who refuse to enforce Constitutional guardrails
BS lady. You cannot transfer the blame for this atrocity just because you hate President Trump. If the perpetrator is caught, I will bet big money he will turn out to be a left-wing ideologue.
I am not blaming this instance of political violence on Trump. I am saying this event does not change the fact that Trump is leading the US toward authoritarianism
If we all got along and there was absolutely no political violence, we would still have a president who is violating the Constitution and the norms and laws that have made our country a Republic for 250 years.
Regardless, were we to discuss negative effects on the tone of political discourse, esp accounting for their status in the system, is there someone who out-points Trump in your opinion?
Charlie Kirk’s assassination was horrific. That doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority of gun (and political) violence has been perpetuated by right wingers.
Instead of trying to blame a side (which doesn't work when you don't even have the shooter in custody or know anything about them), speak out against political violence whenever it occurs.
It's just as likely to be a groyper, or a foreign involvement trying to kick-off yet more division.
I can almost agree with that. Most gun violence is by crazies and criminals - not political ideologues. Currently, it's not right wingers who are attacking LEOs, destroying Teslas and throwing lethal objects.
I was responding to Debra's attempt at blame shifting. I hope the guilty creature is caught. I'm still betting it's a left-wing nut.
Thank you for your honest and accurate description of what is happening. I’m very worried about where this is headed. This violence needs to stop. Let’s take a deep breath and chili out. We all have more in common with each other than we think. Are our differences of opinion and beliefs really worth killing each other for?
I will only say this is a tragedy and the need to stop demonizing starts at the top. Unfortunately that isn’t happening and I fear the violence will only increase. Pull the FBI off of immigration raids and put them back in service solving crimes and preventing tragedies like this.
I was a huge fan of Charlie Kirk. He was a giant in conservative circles. My heart breaks for his wife and children who are now without a husband and father. The perpetrator or perpetrators need to be swiftly brought to justice. My anger and soul hurt won't allow me to comment further, lest I do damage to my Christian faith.
"I was not a fan of Charlie Kirk"... That's a pathetic sentiment to put in a piece condemning this insane violence... It's waving a virtue flag for the tribe. One more example of just how sick our society has become...
Don’t believe David was trying to be provocative with saying “not a fan”. If you have read David in the past, you would know he has been consistent in his comment on political violence. Was the “not a fan” your only take away from his post?
America is doomed. I'm so glad I don't have kids to worry about. Nobody is interested in stepping back. The violence will just get worse. The lies will get worse. The actors who enable this growth will continue to get rich doing it. Honestly if I was going to be alive in 5 years I would be moving to Canada.
"As I write this, the shooter has reportedly been arrested, but not identified."
There have been a couple of false positives on this front (at least two that I've seen). From what I'm reading, the killer is still at-large.
I'll join you in your condemnation of Kirk's murder. One of the concepts that underpins my view of justice is John Rawls' "veil of ignorance"[1], which states that one should work toward a society that serves and is just to everyone, because we should operate as if we don't know into which part of society that we would be born, and to acknowledge that the part we ARE born into is a cosmic accident. I wouldn't want someone shooting at me if I were talking at a college campus, ergo I don't want anyone shooting at anyone else expressing their First Amendment rights, including Charlie Kirk.
That said, if I were Kirk's wife and family, I would also want the most competent law enforcement apparatus on Earth pursuing Kirk's killer. Due to the political purges of FBI agents who worked January 6th cases[2], a Heritage intern appointed to run counter-terrorism because he is a dependable Yes-Man[3], appointing unqualified podcasters to run the FBI (Kash Patel and Dan Bongino), and FBI agents pulled away to chase after fruit pickers and day laborers[4], I'm skeptical that Kirk's family will receive the justice that they deserve.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_position
[2] https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-administration-compiling-list-fbi-agents-potentially-fire/story?id=118324713
[3] https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-dhs-thomas-fugate-cp3-terrorism-prevention
[4] https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/fbi-field-offices-ordered-shift-agents-immigration-crackdown-rcna206859
Political violence is wrong of course, but please don’t think we can save our republic with a let’s all just get along mentality. The biggest threat to our republic is not political violence. That is a symptom not a cause. The biggest threat to our republic is the movement toward authoritarianism on the part of the current administration and its allies in the other branches of government who refuse to enforce Constitutional guardrails
BS lady. You cannot transfer the blame for this atrocity just because you hate President Trump. If the perpetrator is caught, I will bet big money he will turn out to be a left-wing ideologue.
I am not blaming this instance of political violence on Trump. I am saying this event does not change the fact that Trump is leading the US toward authoritarianism
BS once again. You labeled it as a symptom (also known as a result) of Trump's policies.
If we all got along and there was absolutely no political violence, we would still have a president who is violating the Constitution and the norms and laws that have made our country a Republic for 250 years.
My $ is on a groyper.
Regardless, were we to discuss negative effects on the tone of political discourse, esp accounting for their status in the system, is there someone who out-points Trump in your opinion?
Looking to be the case more and more
Charlie Kirk’s assassination was horrific. That doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority of gun (and political) violence has been perpetuated by right wingers.
Instead of trying to blame a side (which doesn't work when you don't even have the shooter in custody or know anything about them), speak out against political violence whenever it occurs.
It's just as likely to be a groyper, or a foreign involvement trying to kick-off yet more division.
I can almost agree with that. Most gun violence is by crazies and criminals - not political ideologues. Currently, it's not right wingers who are attacking LEOs, destroying Teslas and throwing lethal objects.
I was responding to Debra's attempt at blame shifting. I hope the guilty creature is caught. I'm still betting it's a left-wing nut.
If you cannot admit the reality that there is just as much from the right you are just as bad as her.
I agree. Currently the incidents making the news are either ordinary criminality or left-wing violence.
A world in which a right-winger did not just assassinate two elected Democrats two months ago.
Or from last year: the right-winger that tried to assassinate then-candidate Trump.
Please, be respectful of reality here.
lol yeah.
Again I said nothing about blame for this incident.
BS again. You clearly said Trump's policies are to blame.
Going by domestic extremist-caused deaths, it's currently ~75% right wing, 20% Islamist, 4% left wing (includes anarchists), and 1% "other".
I also hope the perpetrator is caught, charged, and tried.
Time frame or link please.
2013-2022. To my knowledge that balance would still remain about the same.
Thank you for your honest and accurate description of what is happening. I’m very worried about where this is headed. This violence needs to stop. Let’s take a deep breath and chili out. We all have more in common with each other than we think. Are our differences of opinion and beliefs really worth killing each other for?
I will only say this is a tragedy and the need to stop demonizing starts at the top. Unfortunately that isn’t happening and I fear the violence will only increase. Pull the FBI off of immigration raids and put them back in service solving crimes and preventing tragedies like this.
I was a huge fan of Charlie Kirk. He was a giant in conservative circles. My heart breaks for his wife and children who are now without a husband and father. The perpetrator or perpetrators need to be swiftly brought to justice. My anger and soul hurt won't allow me to comment further, lest I do damage to my Christian faith.
"I was not a fan of Charlie Kirk"... That's a pathetic sentiment to put in a piece condemning this insane violence... It's waving a virtue flag for the tribe. One more example of just how sick our society has become...
Don’t believe David was trying to be provocative with saying “not a fan”. If you have read David in the past, you would know he has been consistent in his comment on political violence. Was the “not a fan” your only take away from his post?
Dude, it adds more weight to the various sentiments that are important right now.
“This should be condemned regardless of which side of aisle you’re on”
“Disavowing political violence does not require being in the same tribe as, or agreeing with, the victim”.
This is not a difficult concept.
I think the right needs to give dems back control of the FBI. It's clear the idiots aren't up to the task.
America is doomed. I'm so glad I don't have kids to worry about. Nobody is interested in stepping back. The violence will just get worse. The lies will get worse. The actors who enable this growth will continue to get rich doing it. Honestly if I was going to be alive in 5 years I would be moving to Canada.