Jose Ibarra, Laken Riley's murderer, is currently confined at the Special Management Unit of the Georgia Diagnostic and Classification State Prison in Jackson, Georgia. That's also the location of the death chamber and "death row". At some point, GDOC may decide to transfer Ibarra to another close security (maximum security) prison within the system.
And is he allowed visitors? Fed 3 square meals a day? Given exercise time? Allowed outdoors? If so, then he's in better conditions than the men in El Salvador.
Yes. No visitors for the first 30 days, but he's been incarcerated since November, so he is allowed visitors. He is allowed exercise, possibly outdoor time, and is housed in a relatively clean, humane environment. If there were a prison anything like CECOT in the U.S., never mind Georgia, it would be shut down by a court order as a violation of the prisoners' constitutional rights preventing cruel and unusual punishment.
"It would be shut down by court order as a violation of the prisoner's constitutional rights..." IMHO, the prisoner in question should not even be alive. He took a life via murder, so his life should be taken as well. It wouldn't bother me in the least to have a prison on the order of CECOT for murderers, rapists, etc, if our justice system is allowing them to remain alive.
Would it bother you to give our government the power to send anyone there on accusation of a capital crime, if it were a different party in power, and they could accuse you or a loved one?
For those who,regarding deportations, think that Democrats are making a mountain out of a mole hill, and as someone who voted Republican for 30 years, I believe this issue should be front and center as it is a direct assault on the 5th amendment. EVERYONE, regardless of political affiliation, should be greatly alarmed. If you disagree, I'm all ears to hear how this is not an assault on the 5th amendment.
As the Reagan appointed federal judge, J. Harvie Wilkinson wrote yesterday, "If today the Executive claims the right to deport without due process and in disregard of court orders, what assurance will there be tomorrow that it will not deport American citizens and then disclaim responsibility to bring them home?” It's a slippery slope. We should all be deeply troubled.
The Republican party that I have supported most of my life is rapidly marching us toward a one-party state. That is alarming. That is not how a Republic as the founders established functions. Unfortunately, most MAGA Republicans don't seem to care since it is their preferred party doing it.
George Washington warned us of this in his farewell address, "All obstructions to the execution of the laws, all combinations and associations, under whatever plausible character, with the real design to direct, control, counteract, or awe the regular deliberation and action of the constituted authorities, are destructive of this fundamental principle, and of fatal tendency. They serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the delegated will of the nation the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community; and, according to the alternate triumphs of different parties, to make the public administration the mirror of the ill-concerted and incongruous projects of faction, rather than the organ of consistent and wholesome plans digested by common counsels and modified by mutual interests. Towards the preservation of your government, and the permanency of your present happy state, it is requisite, not only that you steadily discountenance irregular oppositions to its acknowledged authority, but also that you resist with care the spirit of innovation upon its principles, however specious the pretexts...
The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty."
I'd copy and paste more from his address but I doubt what portion I've shared will be read. I've shared the link below.
This I know, while we were raised with an alertness toward and a fear of communism and have had our attentions turned toward anything that had a hint of socialism or communism, fascism and authoritarianism have stealthily crept in. It is the natural result of ever shifting further right. The Center holds, but for decades the moderates have been villainized and the crazy part is that just about every Republican who has replaced a "RINO" have themselves become "RINO" and the party has shifted further and further right.
The far ends of the political spectrum are dangerous zones regardless of whether the shift is right or left.
“Kidnapping” is a great word but even that doesn’t really capture it. Usually, the “kidnappers” do the “kidnapping”. And when you pay off the kidnappers, they let the hostages go.
Here, we did the kidnapping of these people, and are paying El Salvador to keep these people imprisoned. Well, hopefully El Salvador is giving us a discount for at least doing the leg work 🤦♂️.
This is where MAGA Trump land is at now. Doing stuff that defies the English language.
Hmmm…”disappearing” generally implies they’ve been whisked away to some unknown secret location. Usually some cloak and dagger to it. Here it’s “yup, we sent them there, we will openly discuss the place, and we’re paying to keep them there”. So I don’t think even that fully capture it.
(I was trying to reply to Steve Berman's last comment...)
To send someone to a prison based on accusation alone is of course a crime in itself. The party in power is irrelevant. Accusation of something is not grounds for anything. But...gov'ts can be and have been corrupt, history is there for our perusal, and not only have mistakes been made, sometimes crimes have been doctored and applied to an opponent.
Jose Ibarra has been found guilty, of course, not merely accused.
Of course, no death penalty or life sentence should be possible except under 100% certainty that the perpetrator is the one who was found "guilty."
No, absolutely not. My point is that Laken Riley's killer was only put in jail AFTER the government provided proof that he was guilty of a heinous crime. And yet, he is STILL better off than the men in El Salvador, many of whom have never been arrested. It boggles the mind.
I agree with returning them to their home country. Let them deal with them as their own laws permit. If they've not done crimes there, they should not be in jail there. Alas.
Nobody is disagreeing. We just want the government to prove its case and follow the law. It's not difficult, we do it all the time. Or at least we did.
Always dangerous when gov’ts go above the law. Or as in the case of globalism, start quietly changing laws through amendments and such, while no one is looking.
Totally agree, gov’t needs toes held to the fire, basically all the time.
Media that are bought and paid for don’t do the job, they are sided and biased, we all should know this. I see though that huge numbers don’t see it or don’t want to—too painful to see the truth. It’s mainly been on one side of late years. Covid scam was an eye-opener.
Good argument, Merrie, but it does not sway my opinion regarding the deportability of Garcia. He was ordered deported after a due process used for decades. He was found to not be the type of person we want as a citizen. Having three kids with his common-law abused wife does not confer him with legal status. It only means they failed to properly use birth control. We should try to get him back and then immediately deport him to El Salvador or to any other country that would take him.
With regard to the others removed under the Enemy Aliens Act, the Supreme Court did not disallow that but only ruled that subsequent removals be done with due process. I'm sure that, sooner or later, the Supremes will be forced to determined what constitutes due process and we will have to live with it.
The question is not whether he is deportable at all: the question is whether the appropriate legal processes have been followed (they have not), and *where* he may be deported - El Salvador is not a legal option.
He has been ordered deported after legal process. El Salvador might be a legal option if he is returned to USA. DOJ seems to think so if rival gangs are no longer viable.
No, you don't "bring them back," but you do set them free in El Salvador and Venezuela or wherever they are from. You set them free in their country of origin, but they have no business being in this country because they came here illegally.
Fine! Then let's stop payment on the El Salvador prison then. Pretty sure their president will release all these men if we quit paying him to imprison them.
You do because first we have to actually follow the processes necessary to deport someone. Follow the law: it's not difficult, it happens all the time.
Want it to go faster? Get Congress to pass that immigration bill Trump killed last year that would change the laws around asylum and provide more funding for immigration enforcement/judges/etc....
Jose Ibarra, Laken Riley's murderer, is currently confined at the Special Management Unit of the Georgia Diagnostic and Classification State Prison in Jackson, Georgia. That's also the location of the death chamber and "death row". At some point, GDOC may decide to transfer Ibarra to another close security (maximum security) prison within the system.
And is he allowed visitors? Fed 3 square meals a day? Given exercise time? Allowed outdoors? If so, then he's in better conditions than the men in El Salvador.
Yes. No visitors for the first 30 days, but he's been incarcerated since November, so he is allowed visitors. He is allowed exercise, possibly outdoor time, and is housed in a relatively clean, humane environment. If there were a prison anything like CECOT in the U.S., never mind Georgia, it would be shut down by a court order as a violation of the prisoners' constitutional rights preventing cruel and unusual punishment.
"It would be shut down by court order as a violation of the prisoner's constitutional rights..." IMHO, the prisoner in question should not even be alive. He took a life via murder, so his life should be taken as well. It wouldn't bother me in the least to have a prison on the order of CECOT for murderers, rapists, etc, if our justice system is allowing them to remain alive.
Would it bother you to give our government the power to send anyone there on accusation of a capital crime, if it were a different party in power, and they could accuse you or a loved one?
I said what I said, and I'll leave it at that.
Bravo.
For those who,regarding deportations, think that Democrats are making a mountain out of a mole hill, and as someone who voted Republican for 30 years, I believe this issue should be front and center as it is a direct assault on the 5th amendment. EVERYONE, regardless of political affiliation, should be greatly alarmed. If you disagree, I'm all ears to hear how this is not an assault on the 5th amendment.
As the Reagan appointed federal judge, J. Harvie Wilkinson wrote yesterday, "If today the Executive claims the right to deport without due process and in disregard of court orders, what assurance will there be tomorrow that it will not deport American citizens and then disclaim responsibility to bring them home?” It's a slippery slope. We should all be deeply troubled.
The Republican party that I have supported most of my life is rapidly marching us toward a one-party state. That is alarming. That is not how a Republic as the founders established functions. Unfortunately, most MAGA Republicans don't seem to care since it is their preferred party doing it.
George Washington warned us of this in his farewell address, "All obstructions to the execution of the laws, all combinations and associations, under whatever plausible character, with the real design to direct, control, counteract, or awe the regular deliberation and action of the constituted authorities, are destructive of this fundamental principle, and of fatal tendency. They serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the delegated will of the nation the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community; and, according to the alternate triumphs of different parties, to make the public administration the mirror of the ill-concerted and incongruous projects of faction, rather than the organ of consistent and wholesome plans digested by common counsels and modified by mutual interests. Towards the preservation of your government, and the permanency of your present happy state, it is requisite, not only that you steadily discountenance irregular oppositions to its acknowledged authority, but also that you resist with care the spirit of innovation upon its principles, however specious the pretexts...
The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty."
I'd copy and paste more from his address but I doubt what portion I've shared will be read. I've shared the link below.
This I know, while we were raised with an alertness toward and a fear of communism and have had our attentions turned toward anything that had a hint of socialism or communism, fascism and authoritarianism have stealthily crept in. It is the natural result of ever shifting further right. The Center holds, but for decades the moderates have been villainized and the crazy part is that just about every Republican who has replaced a "RINO" have themselves become "RINO" and the party has shifted further and further right.
The far ends of the political spectrum are dangerous zones regardless of whether the shift is right or left.
Text of Washington's Farewell Address here.
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/washing.asp
Anyone who is not a MAGA cultist can see how plainly and grossly wrong this whole thing is.
“Kidnapping” is a great word but even that doesn’t really capture it. Usually, the “kidnappers” do the “kidnapping”. And when you pay off the kidnappers, they let the hostages go.
Here, we did the kidnapping of these people, and are paying El Salvador to keep these people imprisoned. Well, hopefully El Salvador is giving us a discount for at least doing the leg work 🤦♂️.
This is where MAGA Trump land is at now. Doing stuff that defies the English language.
Disappearing is the word we may be looking for to describe what is happening.
Hmmm…”disappearing” generally implies they’ve been whisked away to some unknown secret location. Usually some cloak and dagger to it. Here it’s “yup, we sent them there, we will openly discuss the place, and we’re paying to keep them there”. So I don’t think even that fully capture it.
(I was trying to reply to Steve Berman's last comment...)
To send someone to a prison based on accusation alone is of course a crime in itself. The party in power is irrelevant. Accusation of something is not grounds for anything. But...gov'ts can be and have been corrupt, history is there for our perusal, and not only have mistakes been made, sometimes crimes have been doctored and applied to an opponent.
Jose Ibarra has been found guilty, of course, not merely accused.
Of course, no death penalty or life sentence should be possible except under 100% certainty that the perpetrator is the one who was found "guilty."
No, absolutely not. My point is that Laken Riley's killer was only put in jail AFTER the government provided proof that he was guilty of a heinous crime. And yet, he is STILL better off than the men in El Salvador, many of whom have never been arrested. It boggles the mind.
I agree with returning them to their home country. Let them deal with them as their own laws permit. If they've not done crimes there, they should not be in jail there. Alas.
Nobody is disagreeing. We just want the government to prove its case and follow the law. It's not difficult, we do it all the time. Or at least we did.
I see that.
Always dangerous when gov’ts go above the law. Or as in the case of globalism, start quietly changing laws through amendments and such, while no one is looking.
Totally agree, gov’t needs toes held to the fire, basically all the time.
Media that are bought and paid for don’t do the job, they are sided and biased, we all should know this. I see though that huge numbers don’t see it or don’t want to—too painful to see the truth. It’s mainly been on one side of late years. Covid scam was an eye-opener.
Independent media, essential.
Yeah, no.
Globalism is good.
COVID is real.
Media just wants clicks/views.
Good argument, Merrie, but it does not sway my opinion regarding the deportability of Garcia. He was ordered deported after a due process used for decades. He was found to not be the type of person we want as a citizen. Having three kids with his common-law abused wife does not confer him with legal status. It only means they failed to properly use birth control. We should try to get him back and then immediately deport him to El Salvador or to any other country that would take him.
With regard to the others removed under the Enemy Aliens Act, the Supreme Court did not disallow that but only ruled that subsequent removals be done with due process. I'm sure that, sooner or later, the Supremes will be forced to determined what constitutes due process and we will have to live with it.
The question is not whether he is deportable at all: the question is whether the appropriate legal processes have been followed (they have not), and *where* he may be deported - El Salvador is not a legal option.
He has been ordered deported after legal process. El Salvador might be a legal option if he is returned to USA. DOJ seems to think so if rival gangs are no longer viable.
The ruling that he may not be deported to El Salvador is still in place. That would have to be removed first.
He could be deported to another country if they will take him.
The important point: DOJ has to go through the process to do that.
No, you don't "bring them back," but you do set them free in El Salvador and Venezuela or wherever they are from. You set them free in their country of origin, but they have no business being in this country because they came here illegally.
Fine! Then let's stop payment on the El Salvador prison then. Pretty sure their president will release all these men if we quit paying him to imprison them.
You do because first we have to actually follow the processes necessary to deport someone. Follow the law: it's not difficult, it happens all the time.
Want it to go faster? Get Congress to pass that immigration bill Trump killed last year that would change the laws around asylum and provide more funding for immigration enforcement/judges/etc....