"One last interesting property of war: one thing that nobody in a war knows until after the fact (other than the people who started the war, but sometimes not even they know), is if we are fighting on the side of the right and the good, or if we are fighting for criminals and evil."
This is a surprisingly relativistic take from you. In World War II, it was pretty clear who the evil criminals were - they were the ones harassing and driving entire races from their borders, lobbing missiles into other cities, and conquering other nations without their consent. Even if the Allies lost the war to Germany, there was a clear right side and a clear wrong side to that conflict.
Now, you might say that's because the Allies were victorious and wrote the histories, not the Nazi and Japanese regimes. So, let's take Ukraine - an active war where the outcome is far from assured and the history hasn't been written yet. I have ZERO doubt that Ukraine is fighting on the side of the right and good, and the Russian invaders are the evil criminals (see Bucha). If Ukraine loses that fight and is absorbed into a new Russian empire, that doesn't change the fact that the bad guys won that fight.
There are factors OTHER than victory and who writes the histories that we can look at to decide if we're on the side of the right and good, or whether we are unwitting pawns for evil. The Nazis weren't evil because they lost - they were evil because they consigned "undesirables" to concentration camps, invaded their neighbors, and committed a long list of other sins and crimes.
This is why I pointed out the actions of the Israeli sniper murdering Palestinians yesterday. Maybe this fellow is just one "bad apple" that the IDF will deal with, or it's evidence that the Israelies are no longer fighting on the side of the right and good, and have tipped over into evil.
This is why I decry the actions of Trump's ICE goon squads - I see echoes of Hitler's Germany: concentration camps, thugs rounding up people that they (not the law or courts) decide are undesirable, and holding themselves up as unaccountable to the communities that they presumably are serving.
You can argue that ICE is justified acting within the bounds of the law. Germany's Enabling Act of 1933 was the legal umbrella under which much evil was carried out. Germany's concentration camps were erected under the theory that only the executive had the power to decide who was due legal protection and due process, and who were exempt from the laws that protect and bind. Sound familiar?
Deciding whether you're on the right (and good) side of history isn't an exercise that you do once the dust has settled and a victor has been declared. It's a question that has to be asked and answered continuously, as these moral positions are not static and can change, and they say - the road to hell is paved with good intentions. History may rhyme more than it repeats, and we better damn sure be listening.
Selection bias on the viewer. From the German standpoint, many (most) didn’t realize they were fighting on the side of evil until they saw through the lies. Same with Japanese. Sure, we won and we’re good. It is relative, because we make these observations in hindsight. We need to decide in foresight for ourselves.
I'd like to give the everyday German a bit more credit and hope that when they saw their Jewish neighbors being forced to wear yellow Stars of David, watching as their neighbors' homes and businesses were confiscated, and eventually stopped seeing them altogether, that would have been a clue that they weren't living up to the standards embodied in their beautiful Gothic cathedrals. Maybe their patriotic commitment to the Fatherland outweighed those concerns, but a lesser of two evils is still an evil, and those "lesser" evils still ended up congealing into a monster.
Let me pose a question to you plainly right now - given that the historical parallels are so stark - do you view what this administration and ICE is doing at this moment to our neighbors as something that can be called out as plainly evil right now - without needing the benefit of hindsight - or will its ultimate moral weight be determined only once we have a hindsight?
I ask, because waiting for hindsight may not be a luxury that our neighbors can afford.
Fascinating. I knew there were POW camps, but I never knew how many. The only one I ever saw up close was in Brunswick, Georgia. I always suspected the BOQs I lived in at Fort Gordon and Fort Bragg were once POW camp barracks. Both were WWII construction and fire hazards. The buildings (might not have been barracks) saw in Brunswick were much nicer than those BOQs and had masonry exteriors.
I also read that there were a few Nazi rabble rousers in the camps. They were resented by most of the POWs. At least one was murdered by POWs.
"One last interesting property of war: one thing that nobody in a war knows until after the fact (other than the people who started the war, but sometimes not even they know), is if we are fighting on the side of the right and the good, or if we are fighting for criminals and evil."
This is a surprisingly relativistic take from you. In World War II, it was pretty clear who the evil criminals were - they were the ones harassing and driving entire races from their borders, lobbing missiles into other cities, and conquering other nations without their consent. Even if the Allies lost the war to Germany, there was a clear right side and a clear wrong side to that conflict.
Now, you might say that's because the Allies were victorious and wrote the histories, not the Nazi and Japanese regimes. So, let's take Ukraine - an active war where the outcome is far from assured and the history hasn't been written yet. I have ZERO doubt that Ukraine is fighting on the side of the right and good, and the Russian invaders are the evil criminals (see Bucha). If Ukraine loses that fight and is absorbed into a new Russian empire, that doesn't change the fact that the bad guys won that fight.
There are factors OTHER than victory and who writes the histories that we can look at to decide if we're on the side of the right and good, or whether we are unwitting pawns for evil. The Nazis weren't evil because they lost - they were evil because they consigned "undesirables" to concentration camps, invaded their neighbors, and committed a long list of other sins and crimes.
This is why I pointed out the actions of the Israeli sniper murdering Palestinians yesterday. Maybe this fellow is just one "bad apple" that the IDF will deal with, or it's evidence that the Israelies are no longer fighting on the side of the right and good, and have tipped over into evil.
This is why I decry the actions of Trump's ICE goon squads - I see echoes of Hitler's Germany: concentration camps, thugs rounding up people that they (not the law or courts) decide are undesirable, and holding themselves up as unaccountable to the communities that they presumably are serving.
You can argue that ICE is justified acting within the bounds of the law. Germany's Enabling Act of 1933 was the legal umbrella under which much evil was carried out. Germany's concentration camps were erected under the theory that only the executive had the power to decide who was due legal protection and due process, and who were exempt from the laws that protect and bind. Sound familiar?
Deciding whether you're on the right (and good) side of history isn't an exercise that you do once the dust has settled and a victor has been declared. It's a question that has to be asked and answered continuously, as these moral positions are not static and can change, and they say - the road to hell is paved with good intentions. History may rhyme more than it repeats, and we better damn sure be listening.
Selection bias on the viewer. From the German standpoint, many (most) didn’t realize they were fighting on the side of evil until they saw through the lies. Same with Japanese. Sure, we won and we’re good. It is relative, because we make these observations in hindsight. We need to decide in foresight for ourselves.
I'd like to give the everyday German a bit more credit and hope that when they saw their Jewish neighbors being forced to wear yellow Stars of David, watching as their neighbors' homes and businesses were confiscated, and eventually stopped seeing them altogether, that would have been a clue that they weren't living up to the standards embodied in their beautiful Gothic cathedrals. Maybe their patriotic commitment to the Fatherland outweighed those concerns, but a lesser of two evils is still an evil, and those "lesser" evils still ended up congealing into a monster.
Let me pose a question to you plainly right now - given that the historical parallels are so stark - do you view what this administration and ICE is doing at this moment to our neighbors as something that can be called out as plainly evil right now - without needing the benefit of hindsight - or will its ultimate moral weight be determined only once we have a hindsight?
I ask, because waiting for hindsight may not be a luxury that our neighbors can afford.
I will share some of the documentation I have regarding the deception.
https://youtu.be/gykVp3JJNdI?si=ED5OJMCKQYbA4kR8
Fascinating. I knew there were POW camps, but I never knew how many. The only one I ever saw up close was in Brunswick, Georgia. I always suspected the BOQs I lived in at Fort Gordon and Fort Bragg were once POW camp barracks. Both were WWII construction and fire hazards. The buildings (might not have been barracks) saw in Brunswick were much nicer than those BOQs and had masonry exteriors.
I also read that there were a few Nazi rabble rousers in the camps. They were resented by most of the POWs. At least one was murdered by POWs.
Thanks - I'll give it a look later today.
(Been spending a lot of time in the WWII rabbit hole lately, so this link couldn't come at a more timely time.)