Conservatives will never have a national party. I can't believe you are making me agree with Curtis. Your only chance of this working even in the long term would be to have the democratic party split into 2 as well or creating an actual moderate party. One where adherence to the constitution and fiscal realism is the only party wide stance. Where social issues and size of government arguments are all welcome in the party and have to be worked out into a consensus.
Oct 25, 2021Liked by Chris J. Karr, David Thornton
Dang David, when i read your headline i was hoping for it to be the Bill Goldberg plan and not the Jonah Goldberg one. Seems to me if you could get Bill to run, he could take roughly half of the trump supporters who are wrestling addicts.
Here was my immediate reaction to your column: How about a Liz Cheney/Adam Kinzinger ticket? Both are younger, both charismatic and both are staunch republicans. Both of their political future, at least in the short term, is in the toilet. Why not foist them up as the new standard bearers for the Republican Party?
If you are looking for two people who have shown more character in their little fingers than most of those on the right of late, i don't know who they would be?
Might work if you think three or four generations of progressive policies will not destroy the American dream. The three-party scheme you propose will certainly split the party I have the closest agreement with. But if you think Ossoff and Warnock are moderates, we are nowhere close. A four party division might work better but it's too much to hope for with an ever-increasing progressive cohort.
I really believe that Ross Perot winning 19 percent of the vote in 1992 forced both parties to reevaluate their priorities, and put pressure on them to bring our their best. I don’t think the 1994 Republican Revolution(Contract with America) would’ve happened without Perot’s 1992 run. In 1996, Perot won only 8-9 percent of the vote, but by then many of his former supporters were comfortable voting for either the revitalized GOP(from 1994) or a triangulated centrist Bill Clinton. Perot’s Reform Party might not have endured into the 21st century, but his impact on the 2 parties was undeniable for the better(at least from my angle, with the exception of trade. Perot opposed NAFTA, and I supported it).
Maybe Jonah’s proposed new Conservative party might have that success as Perot’s Reform party did(as long as choose people as competent as Ben Sasse, Liz Cheney, Bill Cassidy, Pat Toomey, etc, and not an Evan McMullin or anyone who goes Lincoln Project left to own the MAGAs). It’s hard to say for sure, and it is no doubt an uphill climb. But it’s worth a try. The Democrats are far past the days where nominating moderate to conservative Democrats like John Breaux, Max Cleland, Mary Landrieu, Zell Miller, Sam Nunn were more commonplace. Democrats like this would make it easy for me to vote D as a protest vote. The problem is that many in the party are too illiberal and too far in the leftist realm. That is why many people who would otherwise vote for a Jonah Goldberg proposed party end up reluctantly voting GOP, and I completely understand. That is why to see a similar effort in a center-left 3rd party(consisting of moderates and liberals) being a consternation to the present Democratic Party just as necessary as a Jonah proposed conservative 3rd party. Illiberalism is a problem that afflicts across the political spectrum, and having sane and competent liberals challenging the illiberalism of the current Democratic Party would in my humble opinion, help make it easier for principled conservatives to vote for a Jonah Goldberg inspired 3rd party. And moderates will have the benefit of choosing between a competent new liberal party or a new conservative party. I think a solid majority of liberal leaning Americans do not buy into the illiberalism of the Squad or Bernie Sanders. And I also do think many of them would be open for a center-left 3rd party to be be counterweight to a competent JGoldberg Conservative party.
I think only when both sides have their illiberal extremism challenged is where more good, decent Americans can feel comfortable breaking away from the current Dem-GOP electoral dichotomy.
I have voted Libertarian Party in the past for protest voting. But while I agree with them on most economic issues, foreign policy and defense is where they are way too far apart from me. I also disagree with them on a handful of social issues. After what happened in Afghanistan, it would be hard for me to vote LP given their views on that matter.
Lastly, I think conservatives supporting Jonah’s proposal, should also still participate in GOP primaries and support good conservatives(I think the National Review NeverTrumpers who had a slight disagreement with Jonah, also have a good point even if I thought Jonah had the stronger argument.) They might not win, but it would also be a good bulwark in preventing more Greenes, Cawthorns, Boeberts from emerging. Should they still emerge, that is where Jonah’s 3rd party can spoil their election. It would be a good, two pronged, all of the above effort to try to quash the illiberal extremism on the right.
There are too many that are willing to make a deal with the devil due to their fear of the Democratic party, because of their fear of their neighbors with differing political and policy preferences. Look at Curtis: he's so afraid that it makes him unable to recognize that the Republican party is willing to contort itself and betray its founding reasons for being.
Conservatives will never have a national party. I can't believe you are making me agree with Curtis. Your only chance of this working even in the long term would be to have the democratic party split into 2 as well or creating an actual moderate party. One where adherence to the constitution and fiscal realism is the only party wide stance. Where social issues and size of government arguments are all welcome in the party and have to be worked out into a consensus.
Dang David, when i read your headline i was hoping for it to be the Bill Goldberg plan and not the Jonah Goldberg one. Seems to me if you could get Bill to run, he could take roughly half of the trump supporters who are wrestling addicts.
Here was my immediate reaction to your column: How about a Liz Cheney/Adam Kinzinger ticket? Both are younger, both charismatic and both are staunch republicans. Both of their political future, at least in the short term, is in the toilet. Why not foist them up as the new standard bearers for the Republican Party?
If you are looking for two people who have shown more character in their little fingers than most of those on the right of late, i don't know who they would be?
Might work if you think three or four generations of progressive policies will not destroy the American dream. The three-party scheme you propose will certainly split the party I have the closest agreement with. But if you think Ossoff and Warnock are moderates, we are nowhere close. A four party division might work better but it's too much to hope for with an ever-increasing progressive cohort.
I really believe that Ross Perot winning 19 percent of the vote in 1992 forced both parties to reevaluate their priorities, and put pressure on them to bring our their best. I don’t think the 1994 Republican Revolution(Contract with America) would’ve happened without Perot’s 1992 run. In 1996, Perot won only 8-9 percent of the vote, but by then many of his former supporters were comfortable voting for either the revitalized GOP(from 1994) or a triangulated centrist Bill Clinton. Perot’s Reform Party might not have endured into the 21st century, but his impact on the 2 parties was undeniable for the better(at least from my angle, with the exception of trade. Perot opposed NAFTA, and I supported it).
Maybe Jonah’s proposed new Conservative party might have that success as Perot’s Reform party did(as long as choose people as competent as Ben Sasse, Liz Cheney, Bill Cassidy, Pat Toomey, etc, and not an Evan McMullin or anyone who goes Lincoln Project left to own the MAGAs). It’s hard to say for sure, and it is no doubt an uphill climb. But it’s worth a try. The Democrats are far past the days where nominating moderate to conservative Democrats like John Breaux, Max Cleland, Mary Landrieu, Zell Miller, Sam Nunn were more commonplace. Democrats like this would make it easy for me to vote D as a protest vote. The problem is that many in the party are too illiberal and too far in the leftist realm. That is why many people who would otherwise vote for a Jonah Goldberg proposed party end up reluctantly voting GOP, and I completely understand. That is why to see a similar effort in a center-left 3rd party(consisting of moderates and liberals) being a consternation to the present Democratic Party just as necessary as a Jonah proposed conservative 3rd party. Illiberalism is a problem that afflicts across the political spectrum, and having sane and competent liberals challenging the illiberalism of the current Democratic Party would in my humble opinion, help make it easier for principled conservatives to vote for a Jonah Goldberg inspired 3rd party. And moderates will have the benefit of choosing between a competent new liberal party or a new conservative party. I think a solid majority of liberal leaning Americans do not buy into the illiberalism of the Squad or Bernie Sanders. And I also do think many of them would be open for a center-left 3rd party to be be counterweight to a competent JGoldberg Conservative party.
I think only when both sides have their illiberal extremism challenged is where more good, decent Americans can feel comfortable breaking away from the current Dem-GOP electoral dichotomy.
I have voted Libertarian Party in the past for protest voting. But while I agree with them on most economic issues, foreign policy and defense is where they are way too far apart from me. I also disagree with them on a handful of social issues. After what happened in Afghanistan, it would be hard for me to vote LP given their views on that matter.
Lastly, I think conservatives supporting Jonah’s proposal, should also still participate in GOP primaries and support good conservatives(I think the National Review NeverTrumpers who had a slight disagreement with Jonah, also have a good point even if I thought Jonah had the stronger argument.) They might not win, but it would also be a good bulwark in preventing more Greenes, Cawthorns, Boeberts from emerging. Should they still emerge, that is where Jonah’s 3rd party can spoil their election. It would be a good, two pronged, all of the above effort to try to quash the illiberal extremism on the right.
There are too many that are willing to make a deal with the devil due to their fear of the Democratic party, because of their fear of their neighbors with differing political and policy preferences. Look at Curtis: he's so afraid that it makes him unable to recognize that the Republican party is willing to contort itself and betray its founding reasons for being.
Fear and panic make people do stupid things.