It takes a counterfactual to say that the wheels would fall off if Biden stayed in. Either the parties are committed to democratic choice of candidates or they are not. Democrats have their cake and eat it too at Biden's expense. It's a terrible precedent, unless Biden resigns the presidency as unable to discharge his duties. The precedent is that Democrats (or Republicans who can also do this now) will float any candidate in the primaries, let the public have its say, then use party and big donor leverage to eject the candidate before the convention, putting in whoever they want based on what the other party selects. Leads to bad things. I hope it's worth it.
The parties should serve a function in that they are supposed to filter out unfit candidates before they're ever put in front of voters. The GOP failed COMPLETELY on that front with Trump, and we're seeing the three-legged stool of conservatism thrown out and replaced with a personality cult.
What happened these past few weeks is that the Democratic Party functioned as it should have, and persuaded an increasingly unfit candidate from the race, maximizing the odds that DEMOCRATIC candidates will win their races.
I don't recall this level of angst when the GOP cancelled primaries in 2020 or when the Trump campaign in Nevada went with a less democratic caucus over the primary established by state law.
Let's say that you're correct and in future elections, parties boot candidates who are popular with the respective bases in order to run someone more competitive in the general elections. The parties will have to weigh the cost of pissing off those primary voters, but if the net result are two more competitive (and nationally appealing) candidates than we get from the base-dominated primaries now, that sounds more like a feature than a bug.
Your pearl clutching is a bit over-done. I'm not at all receptive to the argument that selecting a different nominee in this context is any sort of affront to the democratic process. For starters, there was no true primary on the D side--the (party) voters didn't really have a choice. Secondly, the partisan process of selecting a nominee is not really is not truly the core of the democratic process. Talk about precedent: for much of our history, the parties chose their candidates by party elites. I'm not saying I prefer that approach, but it is well within the parties' rights to set the rules about which a nominee is chosen ... and this process is--up to this point, at least--consistent with those rules.
Your entire objection, as much as I can tell, is the public (and private) pressure campaign around the party turning on Biden to force his decision. Calling it a Caesar-like stabbing all you want, but there is nothing nefarious about using public political pressure like this to get a desired outcome.
I'm happy about the outcome so far--I'm far from happy with how we got here. Like others have noted in this thread (or others on this site), my biggest problems are with the Biden camp (and Biden himself). He heavily implied he would be a one-term president. And his campaign and those closely surrounding him assured us he was up to the task. We trusted them, despite A LOT of concern and hand-wringing at the time, because: what alternative did we really have? I'll give Biden a lot of credit for winning in 2020 and for his administration's many accomplishments during this term--but had he stayed on as the candidate and got decimated in November, he would forever be remembered for the decisions he made that led to that loss.
None of that is to say that a replacement candidate (Harris or other) will necessarily win in November. This is a highly risky maneuver. But it looked nigh impossible for Biden to even change the conversation away from whether or not he could do the job, much less convince voters that Trump was the greater risk.
There was a real primary, it just wasn't competitive - 'cause you can't force people to run, especially against an incumbent with a good record. Biden even won in NH as a write-in.
If there's a precedent being set, it's that the media will (rightly) feel that they control the narrative and can bully those they dislike into not running.
Sorry Steve, but this may well be your worst column; EVER. Arguing humanity by dragging Joe along to get his ass kicked might just be the dumbest thing i have heard. That would be elder abuse which i have a better than working knowledge on from my years working with senior coalitions on that very topic.
The man has done yeoman's work. He won a race he would not have won without the Pandemic. The problem was the party trusted him and his people to be up front about where he was/is. They hid it and those who could didn't have the heart to question it. Shame on them. Trust goes both ways.
The debate showed us all who and where he is. I've seen and read all the arguments; he stutters, he had a cold, he was tired from overseas travel, he was overloaded with data. They are endless and the most objective comments following the debate were he has to come out and put it to bed. I couldn't have agreed more and when he did step out he was still a shell of his former self.
Imagine your argument this way; the greatest boxer from my era was easily Cassius Clay or better known as Muhammad Ali. He retired and lived in AZ. Around 2000 he was diagnosed with Parkinson's. His condition worsened though he lived to 2016 (by then pretty much a vegetable). Would you even begin to suggest in 2005 he should step in the ring with Mike Tyson?
It would be insanity, you know it, i know and the whole damned world knows it. Your argument, and the one i have made repeatedly, is to let him step away with dignity and grace that should be shown such a statesman. The party elders owe him that and until they just shit-can him like you were, any other speculation is just that; speculation.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and attribute your orneriness to the software mess...but that will probably get you even more angry. Oh well; Kumbaya is over-rated.
Bill you’ve so missed my point. I agree with you. Joe should never have tried to run in his condition. But since he’s the one in his mental condition he wasn’t competent to make that decision. His party hid his condition and lied to cover it up. They were the ones who let Ali get in the ring with Tyson because Ali thought he still had “it.” They never told him he didn’t, not until it affected them. They don’t care about Joe. They don’t care about anyone but themselves.
"They don’t care about Joe. They don’t care about anyone but themselves."
They care about winning elections, which is what political parties are SUPPOSED to do. We've gotten so used to folks on the GOP side of the fence caring more about loyalty and purity at the expense of winning elections (or becoming a piggy bank for the leader and his family to plunder), that when a party fulfills its essential function, it seems a bit strange in this day and age.
Joe Biden has been in politics long enough to know and recognize this. Sure, it sucks for him that he's been pushed out, but he isn't owed anything, if being owed means poorer outcomes for everyone else in his party. Plenty of Democratic candidates "took one for the team" in 2020 when they dropped out to prevent Bernie from being the one to take on Trump.
I would only ask this Steve: Who knew? Clearly those around him saw the deterioration. They knew and were the ones who threw him in the debate ring. Honestly i thought Joe would do just fine; boring but competent. He might as well have brought a gun on stage and blew his brains out; it was that devastating.
As far as your final remark: "They don’t care about anyone but themselves." That pretty well sums up most politicians. The problem today is we aren't talking about a simple election where the stakes are one party or the other rules. Hell, we've all lived through your guys or my guys winning and losing. Life has always gone on.
And to be clear, when the idiots on the stage this week asked if we are better off than we were 4 years ago...the answer is hell yes...especially for the million plus Americans who died during the pandemic. Which says nothing about not being able to even buy toilet paper (said with a smirk)..
This one is different though isn't it? January 6 should have been the moment trump was done. The phony elector scheme should have sealed his fate. The documents case, while not arms and legs, was criminal as he hid them when they should have been returned. Instead they are celebrating his sins, great Christians that they are.
The man, trump, has no moral fiber, no character and could care less about anyone other than himself. If elected, his cabinet members will be the likes of Bannon, Stone, Miller and Guiliani. It will be the shit show of a lifetime and we'll all have front row seats.
So, at this stage, dragging Joe around hoping for a miracle is more about this country than Joe, the democratic party and even what used to be the conservative republican party. It simply is this: can we stop the donald?
I don’t understand why they want so desperately for Trump and all the chaos that comes with him back in office. 538 polls are not that bad. There are plenty of 81 year olds that still work everyday. Why would anyone in their right mind not be questioning the cognitive ability of a man who continually praises Hannibal Lecter?
Biden supported NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement)
which killed the manufacturing base of this country. Biden supported the anti-gay Defense Of Marriage Act (DOMA)
Biden authored the most racist crime bill in modern history with his Republican buddy Orrin Hatch.(The Clinton Crime Bill) - A bill that jailed so many minorities that it gave rise to the private prison industry and essentially turned jailing people into big business for the private sector . Biden vilified Anita Hill and helped Justice Clarence Thomas ascend to the Supreme Court by refusing to let a single one of her witnesses testify. Biden wrote the predecessor to the Patriot Act (The Omnibus Counter terrorism Act of 1995) Biden fought against student bussing and integration. Biden fought to make abortion a states rights issue. Biden supported legislation making it impossible for people in financial hardship to file bankruptcy on student loans(Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005)
Biden supported the repeal of Glas-Steagall which contributed to the housing market crash of 2008.
Biden said he would veto Medicare For All if it came across his desk. He actually said this in the middle of a pandemic! Could it be because Biden took $9 million from big pharma?
Isn’t Biden funding a slaughter in Gaza?
Could it be because Biden took $5.6 million from AIPAC?
Biden ran on a $15 min wage and abandoned it after he was elected. Biden ran on a $2000 stimulus and abandon it after being elected.
Biden screwed over the railroad workers union when he removed their right to collective bargaining by stripping them of the ability to strike so he could ram the railroad corporations agenda down their throat. Biden celebrated and commended G.W. Bush for invading Iraq. Biden, as any person with half a wit should understand that he is a war hawk and a social conservative. Shed the brainwashing and re-evaluate who this professional grifter actually is...
Fine. All those were things Democrats wanted. And now Democrats are cannibalizing the guy who did all their bidding for decades not because he’s old and decrepit—they knew he was—but because now it might cost them their own positions and power.
After beating Trump in 2020, Joe dropping out is the next greatest thing he's done for the future of this country.
Thank you, Joseph Biden.
This is like congratulating Caesar for taking the knives in his back.
If it keeps the wheels on the Republic a while longer...
THANK YOU JOE BIDEN.
It takes a counterfactual to say that the wheels would fall off if Biden stayed in. Either the parties are committed to democratic choice of candidates or they are not. Democrats have their cake and eat it too at Biden's expense. It's a terrible precedent, unless Biden resigns the presidency as unable to discharge his duties. The precedent is that Democrats (or Republicans who can also do this now) will float any candidate in the primaries, let the public have its say, then use party and big donor leverage to eject the candidate before the convention, putting in whoever they want based on what the other party selects. Leads to bad things. I hope it's worth it.
I don't think it sets any new precedent.
The parties should serve a function in that they are supposed to filter out unfit candidates before they're ever put in front of voters. The GOP failed COMPLETELY on that front with Trump, and we're seeing the three-legged stool of conservatism thrown out and replaced with a personality cult.
What happened these past few weeks is that the Democratic Party functioned as it should have, and persuaded an increasingly unfit candidate from the race, maximizing the odds that DEMOCRATIC candidates will win their races.
I don't recall this level of angst when the GOP cancelled primaries in 2020 or when the Trump campaign in Nevada went with a less democratic caucus over the primary established by state law.
Let's say that you're correct and in future elections, parties boot candidates who are popular with the respective bases in order to run someone more competitive in the general elections. The parties will have to weigh the cost of pissing off those primary voters, but if the net result are two more competitive (and nationally appealing) candidates than we get from the base-dominated primaries now, that sounds more like a feature than a bug.
Your pearl clutching is a bit over-done. I'm not at all receptive to the argument that selecting a different nominee in this context is any sort of affront to the democratic process. For starters, there was no true primary on the D side--the (party) voters didn't really have a choice. Secondly, the partisan process of selecting a nominee is not really is not truly the core of the democratic process. Talk about precedent: for much of our history, the parties chose their candidates by party elites. I'm not saying I prefer that approach, but it is well within the parties' rights to set the rules about which a nominee is chosen ... and this process is--up to this point, at least--consistent with those rules.
Your entire objection, as much as I can tell, is the public (and private) pressure campaign around the party turning on Biden to force his decision. Calling it a Caesar-like stabbing all you want, but there is nothing nefarious about using public political pressure like this to get a desired outcome.
I'm happy about the outcome so far--I'm far from happy with how we got here. Like others have noted in this thread (or others on this site), my biggest problems are with the Biden camp (and Biden himself). He heavily implied he would be a one-term president. And his campaign and those closely surrounding him assured us he was up to the task. We trusted them, despite A LOT of concern and hand-wringing at the time, because: what alternative did we really have? I'll give Biden a lot of credit for winning in 2020 and for his administration's many accomplishments during this term--but had he stayed on as the candidate and got decimated in November, he would forever be remembered for the decisions he made that led to that loss.
None of that is to say that a replacement candidate (Harris or other) will necessarily win in November. This is a highly risky maneuver. But it looked nigh impossible for Biden to even change the conversation away from whether or not he could do the job, much less convince voters that Trump was the greater risk.
There was a real primary, it just wasn't competitive - 'cause you can't force people to run, especially against an incumbent with a good record. Biden even won in NH as a write-in.
If there's a precedent being set, it's that the media will (rightly) feel that they control the narrative and can bully those they dislike into not running.
Sorry Steve, but this may well be your worst column; EVER. Arguing humanity by dragging Joe along to get his ass kicked might just be the dumbest thing i have heard. That would be elder abuse which i have a better than working knowledge on from my years working with senior coalitions on that very topic.
The man has done yeoman's work. He won a race he would not have won without the Pandemic. The problem was the party trusted him and his people to be up front about where he was/is. They hid it and those who could didn't have the heart to question it. Shame on them. Trust goes both ways.
The debate showed us all who and where he is. I've seen and read all the arguments; he stutters, he had a cold, he was tired from overseas travel, he was overloaded with data. They are endless and the most objective comments following the debate were he has to come out and put it to bed. I couldn't have agreed more and when he did step out he was still a shell of his former self.
Imagine your argument this way; the greatest boxer from my era was easily Cassius Clay or better known as Muhammad Ali. He retired and lived in AZ. Around 2000 he was diagnosed with Parkinson's. His condition worsened though he lived to 2016 (by then pretty much a vegetable). Would you even begin to suggest in 2005 he should step in the ring with Mike Tyson?
It would be insanity, you know it, i know and the whole damned world knows it. Your argument, and the one i have made repeatedly, is to let him step away with dignity and grace that should be shown such a statesman. The party elders owe him that and until they just shit-can him like you were, any other speculation is just that; speculation.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and attribute your orneriness to the software mess...but that will probably get you even more angry. Oh well; Kumbaya is over-rated.
Bill you’ve so missed my point. I agree with you. Joe should never have tried to run in his condition. But since he’s the one in his mental condition he wasn’t competent to make that decision. His party hid his condition and lied to cover it up. They were the ones who let Ali get in the ring with Tyson because Ali thought he still had “it.” They never told him he didn’t, not until it affected them. They don’t care about Joe. They don’t care about anyone but themselves.
"They don’t care about Joe. They don’t care about anyone but themselves."
They care about winning elections, which is what political parties are SUPPOSED to do. We've gotten so used to folks on the GOP side of the fence caring more about loyalty and purity at the expense of winning elections (or becoming a piggy bank for the leader and his family to plunder), that when a party fulfills its essential function, it seems a bit strange in this day and age.
Joe Biden has been in politics long enough to know and recognize this. Sure, it sucks for him that he's been pushed out, but he isn't owed anything, if being owed means poorer outcomes for everyone else in his party. Plenty of Democratic candidates "took one for the team" in 2020 when they dropped out to prevent Bernie from being the one to take on Trump.
This was his turn to repay the favor. And he did.
I would only ask this Steve: Who knew? Clearly those around him saw the deterioration. They knew and were the ones who threw him in the debate ring. Honestly i thought Joe would do just fine; boring but competent. He might as well have brought a gun on stage and blew his brains out; it was that devastating.
As far as your final remark: "They don’t care about anyone but themselves." That pretty well sums up most politicians. The problem today is we aren't talking about a simple election where the stakes are one party or the other rules. Hell, we've all lived through your guys or my guys winning and losing. Life has always gone on.
And to be clear, when the idiots on the stage this week asked if we are better off than we were 4 years ago...the answer is hell yes...especially for the million plus Americans who died during the pandemic. Which says nothing about not being able to even buy toilet paper (said with a smirk)..
This one is different though isn't it? January 6 should have been the moment trump was done. The phony elector scheme should have sealed his fate. The documents case, while not arms and legs, was criminal as he hid them when they should have been returned. Instead they are celebrating his sins, great Christians that they are.
The man, trump, has no moral fiber, no character and could care less about anyone other than himself. If elected, his cabinet members will be the likes of Bannon, Stone, Miller and Guiliani. It will be the shit show of a lifetime and we'll all have front row seats.
So, at this stage, dragging Joe around hoping for a miracle is more about this country than Joe, the democratic party and even what used to be the conservative republican party. It simply is this: can we stop the donald?
I don’t understand why they want so desperately for Trump and all the chaos that comes with him back in office. 538 polls are not that bad. There are plenty of 81 year olds that still work everyday. Why would anyone in their right mind not be questioning the cognitive ability of a man who continually praises Hannibal Lecter?
Biden supported NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement)
which killed the manufacturing base of this country. Biden supported the anti-gay Defense Of Marriage Act (DOMA)
Biden authored the most racist crime bill in modern history with his Republican buddy Orrin Hatch.(The Clinton Crime Bill) - A bill that jailed so many minorities that it gave rise to the private prison industry and essentially turned jailing people into big business for the private sector . Biden vilified Anita Hill and helped Justice Clarence Thomas ascend to the Supreme Court by refusing to let a single one of her witnesses testify. Biden wrote the predecessor to the Patriot Act (The Omnibus Counter terrorism Act of 1995) Biden fought against student bussing and integration. Biden fought to make abortion a states rights issue. Biden supported legislation making it impossible for people in financial hardship to file bankruptcy on student loans(Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005)
Biden supported the repeal of Glas-Steagall which contributed to the housing market crash of 2008.
Biden said he would veto Medicare For All if it came across his desk. He actually said this in the middle of a pandemic! Could it be because Biden took $9 million from big pharma?
Isn’t Biden funding a slaughter in Gaza?
Could it be because Biden took $5.6 million from AIPAC?
Biden ran on a $15 min wage and abandoned it after he was elected. Biden ran on a $2000 stimulus and abandon it after being elected.
Biden screwed over the railroad workers union when he removed their right to collective bargaining by stripping them of the ability to strike so he could ram the railroad corporations agenda down their throat. Biden celebrated and commended G.W. Bush for invading Iraq. Biden, as any person with half a wit should understand that he is a war hawk and a social conservative. Shed the brainwashing and re-evaluate who this professional grifter actually is...
Fine. All those were things Democrats wanted. And now Democrats are cannibalizing the guy who did all their bidding for decades not because he’s old and decrepit—they knew he was—but because now it might cost them their own positions and power.
Joe had a great term IMO, but he's 81 and already he can't think and he can't speak and he can't win.