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Political solution not available at this time to address abortion right now beyond the current States’ rights solution. That path was not satisfactory to a majority in the 70’s, and will not solve all problems today either. Congress is paralyzed and the Supreme Court has spoken. So states will legislate and counts tinker until a national solution is available that address the concerns and needs of parents and the unborn child in a balanced and merciful way.

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It's easy to be principled when you're fighting a cosmic battle against immense odds. But when it gets personal, many who railed at Roe would rather keep abortion around. Why? Because (at least for men), they like to fool around. Show me a pro-lifer who is silent or secretly votes against his own position, and I'll show you a guy who fears the consequences of his own actions. As for women, they're wired differently, so I'm not going to try to man-splain it. But I think it might have something to do with being left pregnant and alone by a guy who deserts them. The "my body, my choice" stuff can cover some deep insecurities about what people do willingly then regret later. It's sad that the only voice that doesn't get heard is the one that doesn't get to live. A baby is not a consequence, or even a choice. A zygote becomes a fetus, which becomes a baby, which is born. Barring medical complications, it's human interference--aborting the person growing inside--that we're talking about. Whether you call it murder, or disposing of the "products of conception," there's consequences to that action, too. This is way beyond politics, which is why it's so hard.

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I've gone through this all in previous posts too, so will only state that women have been trying to control when they have children since time immemorial. That was the case even when abortion was illegal, which was a relatively small period of time when it comes down to it.

That it's beyond politics is perhaps the best reason for a more pro- choice position, especially as the pro-life position is set against policies that would actually reduce demand for abortion like welfare, parental leave, etc....

Basically: don't impose one religious interpretation upon others. People need to either willingly adopt that position, or the environment needs be such that choosing to continue with a pregnancy is a much easier decision than not.

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Basically agree with what you stated. But I do not need a religious aspect to believe at some point during a pregnancy, abortion should be illegal, with the usual noted exception cases. Having heard all of my children’s hearts beating at 10 weeks changed my thinking in some way. Would like to see a balance between the rights of the mother and the protection of new life.

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Viability is the best point in my opinion, especially as advances in medical technology push that period back. Natural viability is 32 weeks, but with access to advanced medical technology it's ~24 weeks instead.

I think you'd find that there'd be a lot of - if not near complete - support for a 24-week cut-off on elective abortion with the usual exceptions within the "left" side of the debate; and likely that would be a fairly acceptable compromise position for a majority of Americans.

"Safe, legal, and rare" is the goal.

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That is reasonable to me

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One thing that may make the ACA a not-so-good comparison is that the ACA has had net-positive approval since 2016 and currently enjoys majority approval; and that the GOP's efforts to eliminate the ACA were mostly for show.

It'd be interesting to think of how the political reaction to the ACA would have been outside of the political environment and backlash to "To Big to Fail" that gave rise to the Tea Party (to say nothing of the derangement that Obama's election brought with it).

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That is a good point. The ACA was unpopular until Republicans got close to repealing and the alternative looked worse to most Americans. I guess there are some cautionary tales in that too. Public opinion can swing and the crowds may not feel the same way tomorrow that they do today.

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The last time the ACA had equal favorable/unfavorable levels was April 2017: prior to that, it spent more time in the unfavorable range - but it did have periods where it was more favorable than unfavorable, for example May-July and Sept 2010, Sept and Nov 2012, April and July-Aug 2015.

Unfavorability mostly stayed under 50%, with the exceptions of Jan and Oct 2011, Jan and July 2014 (peak unfavorability at 53%).

Favorability reached has been at or over 50% for the majority of time since June 2017, with all-time high of 62% in March 2023 and April 2024 (last update in the chart I'm looking at at https://www.kff.org/interactive/kff-health-tracking-poll-the-publics-views-on-the-aca/#?response=Favorable--Unfavorable&aRange=all).

And while public opinion can swing, it's important to note that there's important differences in context between the ACA (getting people healthcare options) and killing Roe/banning abortion (taking options away). A better corollary for the ACA is like Civil Rights: it wasn't popular to a majority, resulted in electoral losses, but then gained as time went on.

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Let me highlight a couple of comments David...that are terrifying on their face:

1). Christian Nationalist account tweeted a message a few weeks ago that said, “Christians must learn to hate.”

2). When a minority is determined to impose its will on the majority, sooner or later violence is necessary and violence is easier when people are taught to hate.

Learning to hate by anyone's standards is counter-intuitive to a democracy where we live with 330 million others. In fact, we (religion) should be teaching their faithful anything but hate.

The second point is even more frightening and here's why: The Republican party is and has been for years now the minority party. Thanks to the EC and gerrymandering, ruling with less has become standard fare (and, there is nothing fair about it).

I guess the right's saving grace is the lefties aren't teaching anyone to hate (other than trump) others. Hell, many of us look at maga's as seriously devoid of anything close to resembling critical thinking capabilities; but we don't hate them.

All of this and we haven't even touched on abortions. I hearken back to my youth when folks were picketing outside Planned Parenthood Clinics. I quickly came to believe it wasn't so much about abortions as it was about male and females having sex without the sole purpose of procreating.

Think not? Planned Parenthood was far more from just "ripping babies from wombs." The fanatics have made it abundantly clear they didn't care two cents about what conditions those babies were born into, whether they could be fed or clothed or cared for, or whether the mother got any kind of serious counseling on the challenges ahead.

And don't even get me started on birth control and the "evils" of that insane argument. It was simple: Just stop screwing around if you didn't want babies. God forbid sex should be something to be enjoyed between two people.

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The 14th amendment should have settled the abortion question once and for all. But since a liberal SCOTUS in 1973 saw "a right to privacy" that doesn't exist in the Constitution, we had Roe v. Wade. Now, unfortunately for both sides, we got the Dobbs decision, which was completely wrongly decided, within the lens of the 14th amendment. And, of course, people should have been up in arms after the Roe decision. The problem has been all along that we haven't had the political will to enforce the 14th amendment. Having said all that, eventually violence might have been the result of having enforcement of a ban on abortion, which might have resulted in a civil war with regard to the issue, and, in my opinion, should be fought to conclude it once and for all. If we can fight for a conclusion to the slavery question, we should fight to allow babies to live.

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So are you calling for a civil war regarding abortion Cameron?

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"I'm pro-life, and if you don't agree with my position I'll kill you" sure sounds like a winning message.

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I'm not calling for one, but if one should result from the asinine laws regarding abortion, and the ignorance of the Constitution, then so be it.

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I don't think it applies because when a fetus becomes a person is fluid: for the purpose of the law, it's birth.

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Sgman, your reasoning is exactly why we are in the predicament we are in. If the majority of the populace sees the baby in the womb as less than human, as the south in the days of slavery saw blacks, what should we expect as the end result?

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If you can't get enough people on your side win elections and votes in Congress (especially with a friendy SCOTUS), you shouldn't expect to win a civil war.

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It is mostly women who support abortion, and even if it isn't, it depends on which side has the most guns and resolve.

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Keep that message going, it's a real winner.

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You may disagree, but most of us think that there's a significant difference between a human that has been born and one that has not.

The reason we're in the predicament we're in is because this is one of those things where we are in agreement on what we broadly desire - there to be as few abortions as possible - and in disagreement over how to get there.

Let's also just be clear that many who proclaim to be "pro-life" are in actuality just anti-abortion. They think that making abortion illegal solves the issue (which history shows it will not) and ultimately are enforcing a specific religious take (Catholic dogma, really) upon others.

Just as with drug use, the best way to deal with the issue is to reduce demand - placing draconian bans or unreasonable limits will just result in a black market.

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You're right, I disagree on the difference. And if there is a black market, let that be between the woman seeking the abortion, and God. Of course, punishment due to the "doctor" performing abortions in the black market.

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Uh huh. Always the same with illiberals: it inevitably comes back to violence.

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And, of course, you have little regard for the violence perpetrated on babies in the womb. Let's just rip their limbs off and crush their skulls, what does it matter, right?

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