Many years ago, 1911, to be exact, a carnival came through my small town. A carnie attached to that traveling show, by the name of Concetto Farmica [an Italian immigrant], had a fiery temper. The story goes, he was killed during a fight by a blow to the head with a tent stake. He was taken to McDougal Funeral Home, and his father sent $10 as part of a payment plan to have him embalmed and buried. Rather than finish paying, the elder Farmica disappeared, so funeral director McDougal just put the body in a box to wait for his father to return. He never did. "Spaghetti," as Farmica came to be known, stayed in that box, mummified, for more than 60 years. The McDougals would charge a dime for folks to come see a real-life mummy. At some point, they added a couple of stillborn babies to the box, but those didnt last as long. The public wasnt as morbidly curious to see mummified babies, back in those days. In 1972, a fellow Italian, a congressman by the name of Biaggi, disgusted that one of his countrymen's unfortunate end was being exploited for profit, stepped up and paid to have "Spaghetti" buried. Around 2 tons of concrete was poured over his grave to seal him in, out of fear locals would dig him up. I can actually take you right to "Spaghetti's" gravesite, today.
Now I told you the story of "Spaghetti" to illustrate what I feel would be the likely outcome of Ivana Trump's estate, should they stop paying those ghoulish membership dues to Trump's golf club. If he couldnt make a dollar off of her corpse one way, he'd make it another. No doubt.
I feel like it's more likely that Trump himself would follow Lenin's lead and have himself embalmed and on display for generations to come (who can provide a fair donation).
wouldn't it be more likely that there is at least one secret service agent with an actual working conscience and a love of country instead of looking at 3 people we know have no moral backbone at all?
I appreciate the link. A lot of ground is covered by "reading in". I've seen it used first-hand to include the entire nation. I've been out of the loop for 57 years so I can't address the OfficeBob comments on nuclear related matters. Unless there is a law to that applies to whatever he is talking about, I am skeptical.
Multiple sources of knowledge of classified materials have stated similar things: that's there's a process to actually declassify the document (including labeling it declassified), and that some information cannot be declassified by whim (think nuclear weapons).
And regardless: all documents still belong to the US Government and not the POTUS.
Nuclear launch codes may be in a category that cannot be declassified by the president. At one time, any compromise of launch codes required that they be superseded and replaced in a very short period of time. In addition, they were routinely replaced. This during the early buildup for Vietnam when codes were securely sealed documents. Replacement within the required time frame was sometimes a challenge when a nuclear weapons unit's helicopter support was reassigned to Vietnam and ferries were needed for water crossings. Sometimes the Coast Guard could help with transport, but it was iffy.
These days, the codes are probably digital and encrypted using pulsar emanations from various stellar bodies or some such magic.
No argument on presidential records. They belong to the feds.
There are no “nuclear codes.” There’s a briefcase (“the football”) with procedures and secure communications that allows the president to authorize use of the weapons. There are code word cards, but I’m not sure POTUS carries one anymore since they found one in Jimmy Carter’s dry cleaning decades ago. I think everything has moved to one-time cyphers that are changed daily and kept in the “football.” There may be other authentication methods used for extreme circumstances but when the aged crew we’ve had in the WH for the last 6 years, I wouldn’t trust any of them to remember a code word, never mind a “launch code.” And correct, launch codes, as such are not classified documents in the conventional sense, they are highly classified OPSEC, which cannot be categorically declassified. All POTUS could do is invalidate that set and DOD would go to the next set. If in wartime, even POTUS cannot unilaterally declassify OPSEC, it would potentially be Treason if it cost lives.
Neither I nor anyone else has stated specifically that launch codes are the only items that cannot be declassified: nuclear weapon info (and I imagine that also pertains to nuclear defense info) is what they have talked about be un-declassifiable.
We'll have to wait and see if there really are any nuclear-related documents, but ultimately I think that'd just be one more item on the pile when it comes to the overall point: that Trump willfully took USG docs, the USG appears to have been quietly trying to get them back over time (reportedly issuing a subpoena), and then used a warrant to retrieve these items after months of no movement on the matter - and even then the USG was trying to be quiet about it, but Trump started shouting about the matter.
There are a lot of questions that need be answered, in regards to the extent of the information (which I expect if there really is TS-SCI and SAP info we'll only know that it is that classification); the reason(s) why Trump both took AND attempted to hold on to this information; and if there were any attempts to spread this information to our adversaries.
Limitations on the authority of the President are defined by the Constitution and by statute. I do not believe there are any Top-Secret laws so we should be able to find any law that places limits on what the President can and cannot declassify. Someone more versed in the law will have to do that.
I do know we treated superseded documents and codes as classified materials. We destroyed them by burning at a Navy incinerator in Seattle and created a proper record of their destruction. I do not know what is done now in the digital age.
BS. Your speculation is no better than mine or anyone else's. Your only factual statement is that the FBI conducted a raid on Mar Lago. Reading such tripe is a waste of time. By the way, a president can declassify information on a whim or for any reason -sometimes just because he wants the spotlight. I remember in the mid-1960s highly classified information regarding Vietnam related troop movements and logistics coming through my communications center in Seattle. That evening I was watching the news when LBJ provided most of the details to a national TV audience.
"And let’s not forget, Daddy Trump buried Mommy Trump on his golf course and is charging her estate membership fees."
*RECORD SCRATCH*
What happens should her estate choose to not pay these fees?
Many years ago, 1911, to be exact, a carnival came through my small town. A carnie attached to that traveling show, by the name of Concetto Farmica [an Italian immigrant], had a fiery temper. The story goes, he was killed during a fight by a blow to the head with a tent stake. He was taken to McDougal Funeral Home, and his father sent $10 as part of a payment plan to have him embalmed and buried. Rather than finish paying, the elder Farmica disappeared, so funeral director McDougal just put the body in a box to wait for his father to return. He never did. "Spaghetti," as Farmica came to be known, stayed in that box, mummified, for more than 60 years. The McDougals would charge a dime for folks to come see a real-life mummy. At some point, they added a couple of stillborn babies to the box, but those didnt last as long. The public wasnt as morbidly curious to see mummified babies, back in those days. In 1972, a fellow Italian, a congressman by the name of Biaggi, disgusted that one of his countrymen's unfortunate end was being exploited for profit, stepped up and paid to have "Spaghetti" buried. Around 2 tons of concrete was poured over his grave to seal him in, out of fear locals would dig him up. I can actually take you right to "Spaghetti's" gravesite, today.
Now I told you the story of "Spaghetti" to illustrate what I feel would be the likely outcome of Ivana Trump's estate, should they stop paying those ghoulish membership dues to Trump's golf club. If he couldnt make a dollar off of her corpse one way, he'd make it another. No doubt.
I feel like it's more likely that Trump himself would follow Lenin's lead and have himself embalmed and on display for generations to come (who can provide a fair donation).
That would be pretty low. Any fact checks on the left-wing websites opining on this?
Not that I've seen. Seems sourced from a single tweet.
I'm skeptical as well.
That was a fun read. I laughed out loud at the description of Jared.
wouldn't it be more likely that there is at least one secret service agent with an actual working conscience and a love of country instead of looking at 3 people we know have no moral backbone at all?
We can hope, but how likely is it that Trump would reveal all his most private details to a SS agent?
A useful thread on classified documents: https://twitter.com/OfficeBob/status/1558957818925154304?s=20&t=dr8N7Vx39IAbgpyrn9AZMw
I appreciate the link. A lot of ground is covered by "reading in". I've seen it used first-hand to include the entire nation. I've been out of the loop for 57 years so I can't address the OfficeBob comments on nuclear related matters. Unless there is a law to that applies to whatever he is talking about, I am skeptical.
Multiple sources of knowledge of classified materials have stated similar things: that's there's a process to actually declassify the document (including labeling it declassified), and that some information cannot be declassified by whim (think nuclear weapons).
And regardless: all documents still belong to the US Government and not the POTUS.
Nuclear launch codes may be in a category that cannot be declassified by the president. At one time, any compromise of launch codes required that they be superseded and replaced in a very short period of time. In addition, they were routinely replaced. This during the early buildup for Vietnam when codes were securely sealed documents. Replacement within the required time frame was sometimes a challenge when a nuclear weapons unit's helicopter support was reassigned to Vietnam and ferries were needed for water crossings. Sometimes the Coast Guard could help with transport, but it was iffy.
These days, the codes are probably digital and encrypted using pulsar emanations from various stellar bodies or some such magic.
No argument on presidential records. They belong to the feds.
There are no “nuclear codes.” There’s a briefcase (“the football”) with procedures and secure communications that allows the president to authorize use of the weapons. There are code word cards, but I’m not sure POTUS carries one anymore since they found one in Jimmy Carter’s dry cleaning decades ago. I think everything has moved to one-time cyphers that are changed daily and kept in the “football.” There may be other authentication methods used for extreme circumstances but when the aged crew we’ve had in the WH for the last 6 years, I wouldn’t trust any of them to remember a code word, never mind a “launch code.” And correct, launch codes, as such are not classified documents in the conventional sense, they are highly classified OPSEC, which cannot be categorically declassified. All POTUS could do is invalidate that set and DOD would go to the next set. If in wartime, even POTUS cannot unilaterally declassify OPSEC, it would potentially be Treason if it cost lives.
Thanks. I remember the sealed cards.
Neither I nor anyone else has stated specifically that launch codes are the only items that cannot be declassified: nuclear weapon info (and I imagine that also pertains to nuclear defense info) is what they have talked about be un-declassifiable.
We'll have to wait and see if there really are any nuclear-related documents, but ultimately I think that'd just be one more item on the pile when it comes to the overall point: that Trump willfully took USG docs, the USG appears to have been quietly trying to get them back over time (reportedly issuing a subpoena), and then used a warrant to retrieve these items after months of no movement on the matter - and even then the USG was trying to be quiet about it, but Trump started shouting about the matter.
There are a lot of questions that need be answered, in regards to the extent of the information (which I expect if there really is TS-SCI and SAP info we'll only know that it is that classification); the reason(s) why Trump both took AND attempted to hold on to this information; and if there were any attempts to spread this information to our adversaries.
It's a big WAFO.
I do not know what a WAFO is.
Limitations on the authority of the President are defined by the Constitution and by statute. I do not believe there are any Top-Secret laws so we should be able to find any law that places limits on what the President can and cannot declassify. Someone more versed in the law will have to do that.
I do know we treated superseded documents and codes as classified materials. We destroyed them by burning at a Navy incinerator in Seattle and created a proper record of their destruction. I do not know what is done now in the digital age.
WAFO = Watch and Find Out
Regarding statues/laws/executive orders: https://www.lawfareblog.com/law-classified-information-primer has a good rundown (from 2020)
Also this: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/trump-fbi-raid-classified-nuclear-documents/671119/, which notes that while Trump could declassify (some) documents by will, after he left office Biden or someone else responsible can then reclassify those documents.
(Importantly, they also specify that there's some information that a President cannot declassify)
BS. Your speculation is no better than mine or anyone else's. Your only factual statement is that the FBI conducted a raid on Mar Lago. Reading such tripe is a waste of time. By the way, a president can declassify information on a whim or for any reason -sometimes just because he wants the spotlight. I remember in the mid-1960s highly classified information regarding Vietnam related troop movements and logistics coming through my communications center in Seattle. That evening I was watching the news when LBJ provided most of the details to a national TV audience.
That's why I called this a game. Feel free to add your own thoughts.
Affidavit anyone?
https://twitter.com/ZoeTillman/status/1560347723035021314