"These are all facts. Not one single charge has emanated from any of these actions over the last nearly eight years."
I think you left out the part about the DOJ memo that sets the policy that sitting presidents can't be charged for crimes, so any discussion about statutes of limitation need to take that into account. The clock for charging Trump didn't start running again until after he left office in 2021, so it's not surprising that the charges are just ripening now.
That said, for the NY indictment, I expect the case to go to trial, become a media circus, and for Trump to be acquitted (if they can enpanel a jury to begin with) largely on the same grounds that John Edwards was acquitted when he was caught doing something similar.
If you believe it is possible for a jury to act out of other considerations than the truth of applying the law, and you believe that American justice is imperfect, then it’s possible Trump will be convicted despite whatever valid legal defense is offered (or acquitted despite guilt). Juries have been known to railroad innocent people, or nullify convictions. Judges have a large influence on trials. This case will be tried two ways, neither of which is in the courtroom. 1) on appeal if trump is convicted; 2) by the American people in the media and at the polls.
There's absolutely no celebration for any of this Steve; sorry, but it's a sad day in America when a former presidents action are/were so egregious that he has to be indicted/prosecuted. The bigger question is this: If any of his chiding of the MAGA-mob to incite violence is acted on, and someone is killed, will he be held as a co-conspirator?
To be even more clear, he has avoided the shitstorm because as president he was shielded. Once leaving office he became a mere mortal again and the rule of law was applied, as it should be. If he hasn't broken the law, he will be found innocent, if he has, so be it.
I'm willing to agree with the standards that we should all enjoy...innocent until proven guilty. This time though the jury won't be a bunch of right-leaning politicians terrified of losing the 25% of those loving trump...it will be decided by a jury of his peers.
The irony of leading the chants to "lock her up" are still ringing in my ears. What's that old adage? Be careful what you wish for.
They used the legislative branch and the Deep State to overcome President Trump in the 2020 election and this time they are going after him with the judicial arm and the Deep State. This time around, though, the price they pay is turning America into a Banana Republic and throwing out the constitution and separation of powers. Just like the other two pending political persecutions, it is based on Trump Derangement Syndrome and not the facts. It is a sad day in America as the path we find ourselves thrust on will not end well for the country.
Actually, it is just "get Trump no matter what it takes". Whether that means getting Trump behind bars or getting him as the Republican nominee matters not in the democrat scheme of things. They stay on track in their march toward the nanny state.
What happy horse manure CS. In the end, he will be tried by a jury of his peers, not a jury of the deep state. If he did nothing wrong he'll get off, if not he'll be found guilty. Pretty simple really...that is if you believe in the rule of law and not the nonsense you keep spewing about deep state and the like.
Come on man. Are you telling me that if Trump is convicted by New Yorkers and if that conviction is reversed by higher courts, you will say that Trump did nothing wrong?
Yes ma'am. I read nearly everything Steve writes. I do not agree that all are misdeeds. Many are diatribes by disgruntled employees. Many are differences in opinion. Some have to do with policy disagreements. Some are personality related. Some are real. Ohers may be real but are unprovable. Most are political BS that all political BSers (Trump included) engage in.
Until I see the same standards applied to all political criminals, I will shrug off the "get Donald Trump" crap. He is no different than most national politicians - just more bombastic and irritating. I reject any argument that Trump is worse than Joe Biden or Kamala Harris or many other prominent politicians including a few Republicans. I do not believe Bragg will succeed in persecuting Mr. Trump nor do I believe that Trump is a perfect human being. The charges will not stick and may not even go to trial.
Having said that, I do believe we could do better than the past President or the current President.
It's probably a sure thing that Trump will be convicted by New Yorkers - judge, jury and prosecutor. Based on analysis by some pretty good legal minds, I do not believe it will ever stick. I do think Republicans dreaming that this will help Trump become President again is foolish self-deceit. It could very well help him become the nominee which would be another case of Republicans snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
I would vote for Trump rather than Biden but it would probably be a futile gesture (I don't sit out elections). Trump hate is real and pervasive. No amount of obviously malicious prosecution will sway Trump haters. They will ignore politically inspired prosecutorial excesses which will never be punished. Unless millions of Trump tolerant voters who skipped the last election show up in 2024, Republican votes will be overwhelmed once again by never-Trumps. Republicans need to wake up before the primaries.
We do need to see the charges, but two of them may be related to Section 175.05 (https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-175-05/) and 175.10 (https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-175-10/). The former is the misdemeanor for falsifying business records; the latter is the upgrade to a felony if the business records falsification was done to either commit another crime (by Trump himself) or to aid or conceal the crime of another person - which assumedly is Cohen's criminal actions (campaign finance violation) stemming from these payments and the way they went about doing them.
That's only 2 of the 30+ charges: the remainder will be interesting to see. Eagerly waiting for the arraignment so the indictments can be released and we can all review the charges.
Also, h/t to Patterico re: the explanation of 175.05 and 175.10.
"These are all facts. Not one single charge has emanated from any of these actions over the last nearly eight years."
I think you left out the part about the DOJ memo that sets the policy that sitting presidents can't be charged for crimes, so any discussion about statutes of limitation need to take that into account. The clock for charging Trump didn't start running again until after he left office in 2021, so it's not surprising that the charges are just ripening now.
That said, for the NY indictment, I expect the case to go to trial, become a media circus, and for Trump to be acquitted (if they can enpanel a jury to begin with) largely on the same grounds that John Edwards was acquitted when he was caught doing something similar.
If you believe it is possible for a jury to act out of other considerations than the truth of applying the law, and you believe that American justice is imperfect, then it’s possible Trump will be convicted despite whatever valid legal defense is offered (or acquitted despite guilt). Juries have been known to railroad innocent people, or nullify convictions. Judges have a large influence on trials. This case will be tried two ways, neither of which is in the courtroom. 1) on appeal if trump is convicted; 2) by the American people in the media and at the polls.
There's absolutely no celebration for any of this Steve; sorry, but it's a sad day in America when a former presidents action are/were so egregious that he has to be indicted/prosecuted. The bigger question is this: If any of his chiding of the MAGA-mob to incite violence is acted on, and someone is killed, will he be held as a co-conspirator?
To be even more clear, he has avoided the shitstorm because as president he was shielded. Once leaving office he became a mere mortal again and the rule of law was applied, as it should be. If he hasn't broken the law, he will be found innocent, if he has, so be it.
I'm willing to agree with the standards that we should all enjoy...innocent until proven guilty. This time though the jury won't be a bunch of right-leaning politicians terrified of losing the 25% of those loving trump...it will be decided by a jury of his peers.
The irony of leading the chants to "lock her up" are still ringing in my ears. What's that old adage? Be careful what you wish for.
They used the legislative branch and the Deep State to overcome President Trump in the 2020 election and this time they are going after him with the judicial arm and the Deep State. This time around, though, the price they pay is turning America into a Banana Republic and throwing out the constitution and separation of powers. Just like the other two pending political persecutions, it is based on Trump Derangement Syndrome and not the facts. It is a sad day in America as the path we find ourselves thrust on will not end well for the country.
Trump was a private citizen in 2015/2016, and is a private citizen now. He is assumedly being charged with actions he took as a private citizen.
This has nothing to do with separation of powers, and everything to do with Trump just acting illegally (allegedly).
Facts are that he likely violated section 175.05 and 175.10 of the NY State penal laws.
Actually, it is just "get Trump no matter what it takes". Whether that means getting Trump behind bars or getting him as the Republican nominee matters not in the democrat scheme of things. They stay on track in their march toward the nanny state.
What happy horse manure CS. In the end, he will be tried by a jury of his peers, not a jury of the deep state. If he did nothing wrong he'll get off, if not he'll be found guilty. Pretty simple really...that is if you believe in the rule of law and not the nonsense you keep spewing about deep state and the like.
Come on man. Are you telling me that if Trump is convicted by New Yorkers and if that conviction is reversed by higher courts, you will say that Trump did nothing wrong?
Two things can be true at the same time.
Mr. Stinespring,
Did you even read Steve's inventory of Trump's misdeeds while in office? If ever a man needed to be held to accountability, it is Trump.
Yes ma'am. I read nearly everything Steve writes. I do not agree that all are misdeeds. Many are diatribes by disgruntled employees. Many are differences in opinion. Some have to do with policy disagreements. Some are personality related. Some are real. Ohers may be real but are unprovable. Most are political BS that all political BSers (Trump included) engage in.
Until I see the same standards applied to all political criminals, I will shrug off the "get Donald Trump" crap. He is no different than most national politicians - just more bombastic and irritating. I reject any argument that Trump is worse than Joe Biden or Kamala Harris or many other prominent politicians including a few Republicans. I do not believe Bragg will succeed in persecuting Mr. Trump nor do I believe that Trump is a perfect human being. The charges will not stick and may not even go to trial.
Having said that, I do believe we could do better than the past President or the current President.
It's probably a sure thing that Trump will be convicted by New Yorkers - judge, jury and prosecutor. Based on analysis by some pretty good legal minds, I do not believe it will ever stick. I do think Republicans dreaming that this will help Trump become President again is foolish self-deceit. It could very well help him become the nominee which would be another case of Republicans snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
I would vote for Trump rather than Biden but it would probably be a futile gesture (I don't sit out elections). Trump hate is real and pervasive. No amount of obviously malicious prosecution will sway Trump haters. They will ignore politically inspired prosecutorial excesses which will never be punished. Unless millions of Trump tolerant voters who skipped the last election show up in 2024, Republican votes will be overwhelmed once again by never-Trumps. Republicans need to wake up before the primaries.
We do need to see the charges, but two of them may be related to Section 175.05 (https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-175-05/) and 175.10 (https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-175-10/). The former is the misdemeanor for falsifying business records; the latter is the upgrade to a felony if the business records falsification was done to either commit another crime (by Trump himself) or to aid or conceal the crime of another person - which assumedly is Cohen's criminal actions (campaign finance violation) stemming from these payments and the way they went about doing them.
That's only 2 of the 30+ charges: the remainder will be interesting to see. Eagerly waiting for the arraignment so the indictments can be released and we can all review the charges.
Also, h/t to Patterico re: the explanation of 175.05 and 175.10.