"I think we need to begin to heal, and that needs to start with the federal government calling off the legion of Inspector Javerts, and have people who marched on the Capitol, even entered it, return to their lives. For those few dozen who planned mayhem, throw the book at them, pick it back up, and throw it again."
I'd still throw the book at the folks who entered the Capitol building as that's trespassing, and in the spirit of deterrence, we don't need another Jan. 6 happening where another group decides to test the limits of the rest of our patience. It's not like it's difficult to NOT trespass - I was in a protest(?) during the Trump years against him firing Mueller, and we had ZERO problems not invading the federal building in downtown Chicago where we were making ourselves heard. (For whatever that ended up doing.)
If I had more confidence that Jan. 6 was traumatic enough to all involved that we don't have to worry about it happening again, then maybe I'd be a bit more lenient. However, in the spirit of deterrence, there have to be real consequences to make folks think twice about running this same stunt again. I'm not sure we're there yet.
NO MORE MULLIGANS.
"The deterrent to another January 6th is for voters to remove from office every politician who refuses to condemn the actions of the president who helped incite the crowd, the planners, funders, and then main actors who led the crowd. They should all go. Every last one of them. No dog whistles. No informal connections, no funds. Any link should disqualify them from office."
Agreed, but this has zero chance of happening. And a consequence with no chance of being enforced deters nothing.
Why does the statement, "we need to heal" always just mean do what I think is best for people who are like me. How about the healing of the 100 cops who got hurt and the 3 who killed themselves afterward?
I really do hope that's an unpopular opinion here because its freaking disgusting and its exactly how R. Kelly and others get away with the crimes they commit. People who like or sympathize with a person who just want what's best for them, justice be damned.
Confederate Gen. Joseph E. Johnston surrendered to Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman on April 26, which was the largest surrender of the Civil War. Johnston’s 89,270 rebels were the largest group to surrender, and the agreement was signed 17 days after Appomattox Courthouse. The confederates, after agreeing to disarm and swear allegiance to the United States, were paroled and allowed to go home. Johnston acted in direct disobedience to Jefferson Davis, the president of the confederacy.
Healing means that those who followed without actual malice in acts of insurrection are paroled and allowed to return home.
I suppose the plea deal offered to 1/6 rioters who were not leaders and did not commit violence could be charges dismissed without prejudice, so technically they could be reinstated.
You might be disgusted by that act of mercy but in fact Sherman offered better terms than that to Johnston’s men (which were rejected by the war cabinet and had to be rescinded). And Sherman was no pushover.
Offering the same kind of parole to 500 who weren’t armed and were listening to their own POTUS encourage them to march to the Capitol and fight is to me a very powerful signal of healing.
"Offering the same kind of parole to 500 who weren’t armed and were listening to their own POTUS encourage them to march to the Capitol and fight is to me a very powerful signal of healing."
This seems reasonable if (and only if) each of them agree to serve as state's witness in a criminal trial holding Donald J. Trump criminally liable for inciting an insurrection. They can testify in front of a jury of their peers about what instructions they believed the received and why they thought that it was imperative to follow and disrupt a Constitutionally-mandated ceremony.
Either the folks that followed the usurper need to be held to account so that there are fewer followers for the next usurper that comes along, or the usurper himself needs to be held to account for his deeds, deterring future folks from trying to play the usurper role.
I think you're probably right, but in the interest of preventing future insurrections, having 500 former insurrectionists' "come to Jesus" moments under oath and on the public record probably wouldn't hurt either.
And Sherman's compassion and mercy led to 100 years of misery for minorities in the south. I wonder what would have happened if justice was done and those who raised arms up against American and common human decency were actually forced to pay the price for their behavior.
The civil war is not a lesson in forgiveness. It's a lesson in what can happen to a country when a cancer isn't routed out completely but is left to fester.
The big lie is still being pushed by Rs, Texas is gonna do a recount just like the nonsense Arizona just wasted money on doing. Nobody has even learned a lesson. And yeah it sucks that its the idiots who were caught up in things that are going to pay the price but that is how things go here.
No. Federal troops controlled the southern states after the war. They were pulled out too quickly. Sherman would have left them much longer. That has nothing to do with parole for the confederate soldiers. Let’s not play historical semantic games.
I suspect my mother's family were Unionists. Her grandmother was born shortly after the Civil War and she died when I was about 10 years old. All of them were liberal democrats. No one in the mountains of Northeast Georgia and Northwestern South Carolina had plantations although some may have had slaves. But for those whose way of life was destroyed by the war and the occupation, resentment lasted several generations. No matter how just the cause, there was no justifying their losses to them. Families don't forgive and forget.
"I think we need to begin to heal, and that needs to start with the federal government calling off the legion of Inspector Javerts, and have people who marched on the Capitol, even entered it, return to their lives. For those few dozen who planned mayhem, throw the book at them, pick it back up, and throw it again."
I'd still throw the book at the folks who entered the Capitol building as that's trespassing, and in the spirit of deterrence, we don't need another Jan. 6 happening where another group decides to test the limits of the rest of our patience. It's not like it's difficult to NOT trespass - I was in a protest(?) during the Trump years against him firing Mueller, and we had ZERO problems not invading the federal building in downtown Chicago where we were making ourselves heard. (For whatever that ended up doing.)
If I had more confidence that Jan. 6 was traumatic enough to all involved that we don't have to worry about it happening again, then maybe I'd be a bit more lenient. However, in the spirit of deterrence, there have to be real consequences to make folks think twice about running this same stunt again. I'm not sure we're there yet.
NO MORE MULLIGANS.
"The deterrent to another January 6th is for voters to remove from office every politician who refuses to condemn the actions of the president who helped incite the crowd, the planners, funders, and then main actors who led the crowd. They should all go. Every last one of them. No dog whistles. No informal connections, no funds. Any link should disqualify them from office."
Agreed, but this has zero chance of happening. And a consequence with no chance of being enforced deters nothing.
Why does the statement, "we need to heal" always just mean do what I think is best for people who are like me. How about the healing of the 100 cops who got hurt and the 3 who killed themselves afterward?
I really do hope that's an unpopular opinion here because its freaking disgusting and its exactly how R. Kelly and others get away with the crimes they commit. People who like or sympathize with a person who just want what's best for them, justice be damned.
Confederate Gen. Joseph E. Johnston surrendered to Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman on April 26, which was the largest surrender of the Civil War. Johnston’s 89,270 rebels were the largest group to surrender, and the agreement was signed 17 days after Appomattox Courthouse. The confederates, after agreeing to disarm and swear allegiance to the United States, were paroled and allowed to go home. Johnston acted in direct disobedience to Jefferson Davis, the president of the confederacy.
Healing means that those who followed without actual malice in acts of insurrection are paroled and allowed to return home.
I suppose the plea deal offered to 1/6 rioters who were not leaders and did not commit violence could be charges dismissed without prejudice, so technically they could be reinstated.
You might be disgusted by that act of mercy but in fact Sherman offered better terms than that to Johnston’s men (which were rejected by the war cabinet and had to be rescinded). And Sherman was no pushover.
Offering the same kind of parole to 500 who weren’t armed and were listening to their own POTUS encourage them to march to the Capitol and fight is to me a very powerful signal of healing.
"Offering the same kind of parole to 500 who weren’t armed and were listening to their own POTUS encourage them to march to the Capitol and fight is to me a very powerful signal of healing."
This seems reasonable if (and only if) each of them agree to serve as state's witness in a criminal trial holding Donald J. Trump criminally liable for inciting an insurrection. They can testify in front of a jury of their peers about what instructions they believed the received and why they thought that it was imperative to follow and disrupt a Constitutionally-mandated ceremony.
Either the folks that followed the usurper need to be held to account so that there are fewer followers for the next usurper that comes along, or the usurper himself needs to be held to account for his deeds, deterring future folks from trying to play the usurper role.
Sure. They still couldn’t convict him in my opinion.
I think you're probably right, but in the interest of preventing future insurrections, having 500 former insurrectionists' "come to Jesus" moments under oath and on the public record probably wouldn't hurt either.
Given the choice between that and jail, I’d raise my right hand and ask for a stack of Bibles in a squirrel’s heartbeat.
And Sherman's compassion and mercy led to 100 years of misery for minorities in the south. I wonder what would have happened if justice was done and those who raised arms up against American and common human decency were actually forced to pay the price for their behavior.
The civil war is not a lesson in forgiveness. It's a lesson in what can happen to a country when a cancer isn't routed out completely but is left to fester.
The big lie is still being pushed by Rs, Texas is gonna do a recount just like the nonsense Arizona just wasted money on doing. Nobody has even learned a lesson. And yeah it sucks that its the idiots who were caught up in things that are going to pay the price but that is how things go here.
No. Federal troops controlled the southern states after the war. They were pulled out too quickly. Sherman would have left them much longer. That has nothing to do with parole for the confederate soldiers. Let’s not play historical semantic games.
I suspect my mother's family were Unionists. Her grandmother was born shortly after the Civil War and she died when I was about 10 years old. All of them were liberal democrats. No one in the mountains of Northeast Georgia and Northwestern South Carolina had plantations although some may have had slaves. But for those whose way of life was destroyed by the war and the occupation, resentment lasted several generations. No matter how just the cause, there was no justifying their losses to them. Families don't forgive and forget.