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Jay Berman's avatar

Guess NATO waiting to see which off ramp Tsar Putin will take. All the offered ramps point toward continued destruction for Ukraine. The unwritten deal is for Putin to use conventional war tools confined to Ukraine borders. Narrow war and time in exchange for some of Ukraine. Hope western democracies use Ukraine bravery for good purpose. War is obscene. It happens when you are prepared and when you are not prepared. Rather be prepared and hope that war does not occur at our doorstep.

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SGman's avatar

The desire for a Tsar/king/autocrat/strongman/etc... is strong in many countries, including the USA (see: Trump). It's probably an ingrained animal instinct, even if those systems are inherently unstable.

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Lawrence Penner's avatar

Seeing the caption of your latest piece got me thinking. I wonder how many citizens of the USA want a regime change here verses how many Russian citizens want a regime change in Russia. Just in plain numbers I would say that there would be more Americans want a regime change here than Russians that want a regime change there. However the population is much larger so that comparison is not really fair. More validity should be placed on the percentage of the population of each country that wants to see regime change in their country. I still think that more want Biden gone than Putin gone but it would be much closer.

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SGman's avatar

The population of the USA is about 3x that of Russia. If you're going to compare, then you have to adjust and use percentage rather than raw numbers.

"Regime change" can occur every 2 years, if you consider control of Congress. And of course, point out how the desire for "regime change" in 2020 led to Trump's and the GOP's loss.

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Lawrence Penner's avatar

All valid points but in today's Ukrainian invasion context, regime change is not about elections and my comments were not about elections.

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SGman's avatar

Sooooooo you want to overthrow the US government?

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Lawrence Penner's avatar

Interesting comment. Does regime change mean the overthrow of the government? Although a regime change can mean overthrowing the entire government it could also mean removing the leader and having them replaced by a different leader. That is my understanding what Joe Biden has been publicly advocating for the last week. That leader replacement regime change method is what the Democrats were trying to do through the last 1/2 of the Trump administration. Right? Personally I don't think it would be wise to overthrow the entire US government because of the chaos that would result. I am in favor or replacing the leadership of the present government as he is doing considerable harm to the country and America's position in the world order.

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Chris J. Karr's avatar

This is really an interesting comment.

I don't think that I'd call the Democrats' attempted impeachment of Trump a "regime change" mainly because the mechanisms for impeachment are written down in our Constitution. And had the Democrats been successful, they wouldn't have chosen Trump's successor - it was already spelled out that Michael Pence would have become POTUS in that case.

Now, had someone intentionally slipped a large marble into one of Trump's fast food meals and he choked on it, that *might* have been credibly called "regime change" as dispatching American leaders with esophageal obstructions isn't part of our founding documents, laws, or processes at all. But only if you consider Pence the leader of a "new" regime.

In terms of "regime changing" Biden, the impeachment mechanisms are still there for you (or more accurately, your Representative and Senators) to use. But you won't really be installing a new regime with President Kamala Harris, just elevating someone in the existing chain of command to be the new person calling the shots. (Same as if Biden resigns or dies in office.)

If Biden's sticking around longer than you like, call your elected representatives to get the Impeachment Ball rolling!

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Curtis Stinespring's avatar

Impeachment is a constitutional procedure. Unfortunately, the Constitution does not fully define impeachable offenses or ensure that those doing the impeaching are any more honorable than those being impeached. I will continue to take flack for stating that the closest thing to a coup I've seen in the USA is the effort by bureaucrats, the media, democrats and never-Trumpers to depose a duly elected President. And that does not mean I approve of everything Trump did. So, fire away.

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SGman's avatar

Methinks you need to expand your news sources: look at how Biden has (quietly) rallied NATO to support Ukraine, as opposed to Trump's antagonization of NATO (and other allies). Note the difference of America's position in the world order pre-Trump and post-Trump: Trump caused a huge amount of damage to our position, much of which was cheered by his supporters.

The issue you have is that in a liberal democracy, the regime is the government itself - not just the POTUS. It is our elected and appointed officials: and the only legitimate regime change methods are elections or legal removal of said elected officials.

Limiting this to POTUS: what has Biden done that anywhere approaches the bar for legal removal?

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Lawrence Penner's avatar

Maybe I need to expand my news sources but it looks like that can be said for you also. Antagonization of NATO was not a bad thing. I noticed that once the shit hit the fan in Ukraine, Germany announced they were stepping up there NATO financial commitment to the original agreed amounts, just like Trump was asking for. I could talk about Europe and their reliance on Russian energy that Trump was on their ass about. I guess they see the light now.

I am afraid that I do not agree about your assessment of what constitutes regime change. With the removal of Biden and his handlers we would have accomplished a regime change in the US.

The list of policy failures, personal graft and physiological failings easily surpass what was used as a reason to try and impeach President Trump.

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Scott C.'s avatar

They never actually answer this question. The democrats laid out what they think Trump did wrong both times they tried to remove him but for them its always vague accusations or straight up nonsense. Here he says, "The list of policy failures, personal graft and physiological failings", yet doesn't actually include even one laid out claim. It's all a fantasy to them.

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Curtis Stinespring's avatar

Putin's aggression, not Biden, united NATO.

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Scott C.'s avatar

Seems to me that he is saying he wants to destroy the US form of government. He wants Russia.

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Lawrence Penner's avatar

Keep reading.

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