For the unvaccinated, we're fast approaching the point of throwing bad money (and effort) after good:
"Most Americans who haven’t been vaccinated against COVID-19 say they are unlikely to get the shots and doubt they would work against the aggressive delta variant despite evidence they do, according to a new poll that underscores the challenges facing public health officials amid soaring infections in some states."
"Among American adults who have not yet received a vaccine, 35% say they probably will not, and 45% say they definitely will not, according to a poll from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research. Just 3% say they definitely will get the shots, though another 16% say they probably will."[1]
Let's get that last 19% their shots and be finished with trying to persuade the holdouts that they should act for their own self benefit. Let's send the remaining shots overseas to folks who will appreciate them and let this utterly predictable and avoidable situation unfold, documenting it as cautionary tale to tell surviving generations. Let's take the resources that would be wasted on public outreach, folks going door-to-door, etc. and do something productive with it for the people who aren't dead set on kamikaze'ing their own communities in a pointless culture war.
I just finished typing up my comments regarding giving away our doses to those who actually will appreciate and are more deserving of them, and am reading your last paragraph where you suggesting the same. I think this makes sense at this point. We can also maybe offer to some incentives to have them come to the United States and naturalize. Given our birthrates have plummeted below replacement levels, these immigrants would bring their work ethic and gratitude based mindset to our country and we would benefit. It would increase the percentage among our populace who believe in personal responsibility, to where we can maintain a healthy form of self-governance as envisioned by the Framers.
Is your outraged friend aware that vaccine requirements for students is a ship that sailed a LONG time ago?
To pick a school near you (UGA): "It is the policy of the University Health Center to comply with the mandatory immunization program established by the Board of Regents of the University System of Georgia. These requirements include documented proof of immunity to measles, mumps, rubella, varicella (chicken pox), tetanus, and hepatitis B, and completed screening questionnaire for tuberculosis prior to registration at the University of Georgia. All entering students must meet these requirements, and no clearances are given to allow registration without meeting these requirements."[1]
Seems odd to be still fighting this war in the 21st century when it was lost decades ago.
"Effective July 1, 2014, children born on or after January 1, 2002 who are attending seventh grade, and new entrants into Georgia schools in grades 8 through 12, must have received one dose of tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis (Tdap) vaccine and one dose of meningococcal (meningitis) vaccine. (“New entrant” means any child entering any school in Georgia for the first time or entering after having been absent from a Georgia school for more than 12 months or one school year)."[1]
As far as I can remember from days as a youngster attending K-12, and at the university for my undergrad and grad programs, we were required to get vaccines, and/or show documented proof that we received it. As a Gen Xer myself, I don't ever remember at any time hearing anyone complaining of such vax requirements, that it amounted to tyranny or a health Gestapo.
Yeah you can thank the right wing for that. Their brains are so damaged now with conspiracy and nonsense that they literally believed a global pandemic was created to make Trump look bad. When you get to that level of delusional there isn't anything you can turn into a talking point. And right wing media is beyond evil in their use of misinformation.
You are far more tolerant than i David, i simply have come to the point where i ignore them. There's no point in arguing. I'm so tired of hearing these two things: "i want everything back to normal," and the ever present lament, "freedom."
And the irony is just this: All of us want things back to normal, all of us believe in freedom. Duh...doesn't matter, left right or in the middle we all want those to be at the core of our existence as we go forward.
The path there is simple, nothing profound or overly confusing: Get vaccinated. That's it, nothing more nothing less. You want to be free? You want things back to normal? Get vaccinated.
You kind of started to get to this point and then you stopped. Listening to the anti-vaxxers is just like listening to the big lie. Almost every argument starts with made up crap and the building blocks of more lies are piled on to reinforce the untruths. That's why there is no point arguing with them. Facts don't matter, only their twisted fabricated nonsense they have been fed by the con men feeding off the suckers.
As i said when i was trying to get you and Steve in a cage match with thousands in attendance we are headed to a very bad place. Remember, these are the "good months." Everyone is outside with less transmission. Come fall with huge indoor events and no masks, no social distancing and the delta variant growing in strength and spread something will have to give and it won't be more freedom and getting back to normal. One further speculation...watch those on the right arguing against getting vaccinated blame Biden.
Many of the conservative antivaxxers in my sphere are already blaming Biden. Because he didn't shut the borders down and purposely let the Delta variant into the country. Sigh.....🙄 Also pointing to the wobbly market (wobbly primarily due to the Delta surge) as proof his economic plan failed. I honestly think that IS the strategy, keep up the antivax push in order to destabilize the economy. Then they have something that sticks. But then again, I have become extremely cynical over the last 16 months, read with salt.
It makes me wonder just how many of the anti-vaxxers of the current are truly anti-vax in their beliefs, as opposed to those upset at Trump's defeat, who want to make President Biden fail.
I personally don't believe that individuals think of it this way. They have bought into the antivax rhetoric hook, line and sinker. And how could they not? They are so information isolated within the right wing mediasphere that nothing else penetrates. I do, however, believe that Fox and the entire gang of media, and the political establishment, is not this ignorant of facts. They obviously DO have an agenda; my suspicion is the only agenda that makes any sense to me about their motives. Lives lost are justifiable collateral damage. Idk.
I agree with what you said in the 1st paragraph Bill. I will gladly talk to and try to convince those who are reasonable, and many of these vax-hesitant people have decided to get vaccines, and I'm happy for that. But for others, they just say "we just want to ask questions", when they constantly keep moving the goalposts whenever they get an answer they don't like. And it is getting really annoying, to where I do what you do and ignore them. It is counterproductive to talk to them.
"The path there is simple, nothing profound or overly confusing: Get vaccinated. That's it, nothing more nothing less. You want to be free? You want things back to normal? Get vaccinated."
Getting a vaccine doesn't hurt at all. I will never understand why it had to become so political. I can't count how many of my friends from other countries are asking me why so many here in America are refusing them. They would give an arm and leg to get the vaccines. Maybe give them the vaccines these anti-vaxxers refused, and welcome them to America as new immigrants. Then offer these anti-vaxxers a one way trip to a third world country. Maybe only then, will they realize just how foolish they were for getting so petty over a freaking vaccine.
I am a senior with a couple of preconditions that would likely make me part of the high risk group from covid and that is why I got vaccinated at the earliest opportunity. What we saw and are seeing with the push to vaccinate the younger and healthier today is fear mongering and an exercise to effect control. Once we have got the high risk groups vaccinated this virus is nothing more than a tough years flu. Sorry if you don't see it but look at the data. The risk of serious illness or death for healthy people under 40 is tiny and under 25 is not measurable. We do not know enough about this vaccine to be encouraging kids to get the shot. We don't need to be experimenting on our future.
Our medical community has really let us down with the pursuit of therapeutics and if we were making serious advancements in this field we could lower the severe illness and death numbers for all healthy individuals to virtually zero. The rest of the world is leading the way with development of treatment regimens. This virus, thanks to China, whether intentional or accidental release, is going to be with us forever and we need to overcome it with a program of vaccines and natural/herd immunity or we will be walking around scared for the rest of our lives. That is not for me. Did you notice how the criminals are taking advantage of masks to escape being caught or prosecuted for their violent crimes. The acceptance of wearing masks is contributing to the escalated crime rates. It is also had a very serious effect on the psyche or our nation.
The push to get younger and healthier adults vaccinated is directly related to our ability to have a functioning hospital system:
"The state’s top doctor echoed the words of federal health officials Friday, calling COVID-19 in Tennessee 'a pandemic among the unvaccinated.' Department of Health Commissioner Dr. Lisa Piercey also reported unvaccinated people make up 97% of all COVID-19 hospitalizations and more than 98% of recent deaths."
"Latest numbers from TDH show 12% of ICU beds are available statewide, which is 240 our of 2,039 total."
"The Knox County Health Department tracks similar data, by compiling numbers from more than a dozen regional hospitals. Their numbers, last updated Tuesday, show 90.9% ICU beds are filled in our area, leaving 13 available. While their data includes an additional surge capacity of 543 beds, though their site clarifies the necessary staffing for that increase isn’t guaranteed."[1]
All it takes is one bad bus accident and Knoxville's out of ICU beds, and folks with real non-COVID emergencies start to get turned away.
You might have a point that this is fear-based if hospital capacity issues were not a problem, but that's not what we're seeing in many parts of the country.
"Our medical community has really let us down with the pursuit of therapeutics and if we were making serious advancements in this field we could lower the severe illness and death numbers for all healthy individuals to virtually zero."
We have accomplished this - in three or more different instances. It's called THE VACCINE. The best therapeutic is not getting sick in the first place, and the vaccine does this. (I'd rather not get a cold in the first place than be fortunate enough to have to use the best cold medicine possible.) I don't know why you think folks are eager to get sick, then get treated for the sickness, as opposed to avoiding the virus altogether. The vaccine is orders of magnitude cheaper than any hospital stay with the best therapeutics, so if you're not willing to take it and tough out COVID, at least do it for your pocket book and keeping our collective insurance rates lower. (Someone's paying for your hospital stay and therapeutics at the end of the day.)
"Did you notice how the criminals are taking advantage of masks to escape being caught or prosecuted for their violent crimes. The acceptance of wearing masks is contributing to the escalated crime rates. It is also had a very serious effect on the psyche or our nation."
Do you know how you do away with masks in our society? You get everyone vaccinated so that masks are no longer necessary. In Deep Blue urban Chicago, the only place these days I wear a mask is on the public transit. And that's because my city has done what they need to do and we're moving away from masks everywhere as quickly as we can. We did that by taking the shot. (We have other serious issues on the crime front, but to suggest that masking is part of that is absurd.)
"We do not know enough about this vaccine to be encouraging kids to get the shot. We don't need to be experimenting on our future."
I agree with you that we need more data on this, and we are collecting more data on this. But you know what? Do you know how we reduce the demand for kids to get the shot and lower the chances of them contracting and spreading the virus? By having the adults in their life that they come into contact with getting the shot themselves. If you care about kids' well-being and ability to return to normal after the past year and a half, encourage adults in their lives to get the shot.
If you're serious about actually looking at the data, please take a look at the percentage of COVID patients consuming medical capacity who are vaccinated versus those who are not. On your therapeutic point, take a look at the data about the small number of vaccinated people who do catch COVID (Texas Democrats, for example) and suffer severe effects from the virus. There's enough data at this point to compare the health outcomes of heavily vaccinated areas and those shunning the vaccine and it's simply no contest.[2]
The one thing I got from your comment was that you went into Deep Blue Urban Chicago, without an armed guard. Brave man. I don't care about infections, every infection of a youthful healthy American is not much more than another American with the best kind of immunity from the virus, that is, a natural immunity.
You have missed the boat on therapeutics, this disease is 100% survivable without long lasting effects with early treatment. Just look at survivability numbers in the third world versus here. Don't ask goggle about this they hide the truth.
I've been living here without an armed guard or experiencing any crime for almost two decades now. You just have to be savvy about which neighborhoods you spend your time in and when. That's not to say that it couldn't be better - wow, could it - but it's much better than many other cities in the US.
As for the therapeutic angle, since you don't want me Googling for information, how about you be a mensch and share what numbers you have in mind, as well as the source they come from?
I'm particularly interested in a cost comparison getting a shot of the vaccine versus the cost of the therapeutic itself (combined with the supporting services, such as a hospital stay [if necessary] etc.). What I can tell you about the third world is that despite their therapeutics, they'd be happy to have the vaccines we're not taking[1], so we may be on the same page on sending what we have her that folks are resisting elsewhere where it may be put to productive use.
That comment regarding security sounds like the people I was communicating with in Portland when ANTIFA was having their way with the city. Good Job. Anyone that can express those thoughts about 11 people getting shot last weekend deserves Lightfoot and everything the local DA brings to them. Sorry, don't buy it. The attitude that spawns a "Just keep them down on the plantation and everything will be OK" will help with reelection but will not help the country.
Therapeutics are another one of those messages that the Left does not want to be out there. The more people realize that this virus can be treated with 100% success in the otherwise healthy, like the common cold, to minimize the impact on the infected the more trouble they will have maintaining the fear level. It is all about the fear level, Time magazine talked about that during the run up to the last election. Funny how it was the Right that were the only ones that got upset at this, seems others don't mind being manipulated.
You're welcome to run for Chicago mayor in 2023 or DA in 2024 with your solutions. (Plenty of folks here - including myself - think that Foxx should be run out of the state.)
Getting back to the topic at hand, if the virus can be treated therapeutically with a 100% success rate, show me where that's happened with treatment population greater than 1000 people that are representative of the local underlying community. I'll note that you've already ignored my prior request for a link or something that would allow me to take your claims seriously, please don't leave us hanging with your therapeutic miracle.
Don't become one of HCI's examples of someone who moves the goalposts when asked to back up a claim that they're making.
I did not claim 100% success rate in all groups. I talked about the part of the population that really does not need to be vaccinated. The youthful otherwise healthy group. I would also count in that group, people that have developed their own immunity by prior infection. That is one of the first things that got me questioning the authorities on this virus and vaccine, why was it not tested on people with prior infections and a developed natural immune response, yet the authorities were telling all of those people they needed to be vaccinated. HMMM.
Fox is pointing Chicago in the wrong direction but the Mayor is even worse. That is one sick puppy that the Left has elected.
Critical thinking and questioning all that comes from the media is all I need to drive me to the research that I point to. You are on your own if you want to find the truth.
Gonna be tough for Larry to do, considering he doesn't trust the largest search engine (because he doesn't understand how the algorithm works).
How about Bing/Yahoo/DuckDuckGo? Of course, their algorithms will do the same/similar as Google - whatever has the most content/searches is what will be listed first (most of the time).
'cause vaccines don't cause negative effects after a long period of time has passed, while viruses do (e.g. varicella causing chicken pox and then later shingles). Your focus exclusively on death is a great example of tunnel-vision, as you ignore rising rates of infection and hospitalization.
You want this to end? Then urge people to get themselves and their kids vaccinated. Otherwise, you just leave a large population (prone to spreading diseases) unprotected and allowing the virus to mutate.
I think the Cleveland Rocks sounds good. I didn't think there was anything offensive about the Cleveland Indians name at all, but I think I can get used to the new name. With that said, it'll be very interesting to see what will be the new name of the team once known as the Washington Redskins. I remember my youthful days making fun of how the Redskins constantly sucked(apologizes in advance to any fan out there!), and would refer to them as the Washington Deadskins. That and the Cowboys were the teams that I disliked the most as in my youth. Emmitt Smith just rubbed me off the wrong way, and so I savored a lot of loss by the Dallas Cowgirls. I don't hate these teams as did as I was a youngster, but if the Redskins became the Washington Sux(the nomenclature counterpart to the Cleveland Rocks), it would still be an accurate description of how the team has been playing for many years now. ;)
It is time for Fox News to pull the plug on Carlson just like they did on Lou Dobbs when he kept asserting the election was stolen from Trump. Tucker's show has a lot of viewers, and Fox needs to make the decision between choosing what is lucrative, and what is morally correct.
At this point, if people choose not to get the vaccine, they don't deserve one. After a certain point, to heck with them. Just send the doses overseas in developing countries where many people would gladly get it. And they sure as heck would be far more grateful for it than the ones here who refuse it. It would great diplomacy and for building coalitions to counter China. Make jabs mandatory for the military, hospitals, schools. But for individuals who stubbornly refuse, make them pay for their decision by giving away their dose to someone else more deserving. We would be wasting our time trying to make them get jabbed, giving fuel to Tucker and Berenson to proclaim on the coming of the Fourth Reich, and allowing these vax-refusers to play victim and denigrate our society even further. I don't want my tax money used on them anymore, as this is getting ridiculous. We've discussed here previously at the Racket about the Carrot and Stick approach, and I think will go a long way in rewarding the responsible, and making the irresponsible pay a big price for their poor choices.
I know this isn't popular among on the political right, but vaccine passports strengthens a free market by giving businesses the resources it needs to ensure a safe commercial/retail environment. They wouldn't have to worry about the unvaxxed costing them business, by having responsible consumers shy away. Small businesses in particular would benefit from this. And I agree with allowing health insurance companies to charge higher premiums and fees for the unvaxxed(minus the few who cannot get a vaccine for health reasons). Jack them up extremely high, might I add, and make it hurt. The vaccine passports will give airlines a tool to deny boarding for the purposefully unvaxxed, and as a frequent air traveler myself, I would welcome that. Also, if you don't get vaccinated, then no government handouts or benefits to you, period. Give a recurring tax credit for the vaxxed, making the unvaxxed end up with a higher tax liability. Local and state governments can either require workplaces to have their workers vaxxed, or they can provide tax breaks for companies that require it. Also, require any organization that receives Federal/State monies to have their employees vaccinated. If they don't, then they forfeit their grants and benefits. I think this Carrot and stick approach allows for a healthy combination of the free market and government rules to make sure we aren't the ones paying for the poor choices of others.
Right wing media is evil. They have successfully convinced a very stupid portion of our country that only they can be trusted. And they are literally leading those people to their deaths.
And this is why right wing media is so successful in their lies. They have convinced people like you that the slant of actual news organizations is worse or the same as lying about a global pandemic. CNN or MSNBC is leaps and bounds more accurate than even the best right wing news source. And that is all that should matter not whether they like the same things as you.
It is now May 2023 and I hope you are thoroughly ashamed that you wrote such totalitarian tosh. Some of us also got it wrong, like my taking jabs 1 and 2 in Jan and Feb 2020 but not being such a twit, twerp and pillock to take another
For the unvaccinated, we're fast approaching the point of throwing bad money (and effort) after good:
"Most Americans who haven’t been vaccinated against COVID-19 say they are unlikely to get the shots and doubt they would work against the aggressive delta variant despite evidence they do, according to a new poll that underscores the challenges facing public health officials amid soaring infections in some states."
"Among American adults who have not yet received a vaccine, 35% say they probably will not, and 45% say they definitely will not, according to a poll from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research. Just 3% say they definitely will get the shots, though another 16% say they probably will."[1]
Let's get that last 19% their shots and be finished with trying to persuade the holdouts that they should act for their own self benefit. Let's send the remaining shots overseas to folks who will appreciate them and let this utterly predictable and avoidable situation unfold, documenting it as cautionary tale to tell surviving generations. Let's take the resources that would be wasted on public outreach, folks going door-to-door, etc. and do something productive with it for the people who aren't dead set on kamikaze'ing their own communities in a pointless culture war.
[1] https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-science-health-government-and-politics-coronavirus-pandemic-36ea18ee3a3397da7edd5b8249f0e477
I just finished typing up my comments regarding giving away our doses to those who actually will appreciate and are more deserving of them, and am reading your last paragraph where you suggesting the same. I think this makes sense at this point. We can also maybe offer to some incentives to have them come to the United States and naturalize. Given our birthrates have plummeted below replacement levels, these immigrants would bring their work ethic and gratitude based mindset to our country and we would benefit. It would increase the percentage among our populace who believe in personal responsibility, to where we can maintain a healthy form of self-governance as envisioned by the Framers.
Amen, pal.
Worst thing is, we've got a bunch of doses that are expiring and being tossed rather than given to those that desperately want them.
Is your outraged friend aware that vaccine requirements for students is a ship that sailed a LONG time ago?
To pick a school near you (UGA): "It is the policy of the University Health Center to comply with the mandatory immunization program established by the Board of Regents of the University System of Georgia. These requirements include documented proof of immunity to measles, mumps, rubella, varicella (chicken pox), tetanus, and hepatitis B, and completed screening questionnaire for tuberculosis prior to registration at the University of Georgia. All entering students must meet these requirements, and no clearances are given to allow registration without meeting these requirements."[1]
Seems odd to be still fighting this war in the 21st century when it was lost decades ago.
[1] https://www.uhs.uga.edu/info/immunizations
And for pre-college in Georgia:
"Effective July 1, 2014, children born on or after January 1, 2002 who are attending seventh grade, and new entrants into Georgia schools in grades 8 through 12, must have received one dose of tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis (Tdap) vaccine and one dose of meningococcal (meningitis) vaccine. (“New entrant” means any child entering any school in Georgia for the first time or entering after having been absent from a Georgia school for more than 12 months or one school year)."[1]
[1] https://www.gachd.org/programs-services/immunizationsvaccinations/vaccinations-for-school/
As far as I can remember from days as a youngster attending K-12, and at the university for my undergrad and grad programs, we were required to get vaccines, and/or show documented proof that we received it. As a Gen Xer myself, I don't ever remember at any time hearing anyone complaining of such vax requirements, that it amounted to tyranny or a health Gestapo.
Yeah you can thank the right wing for that. Their brains are so damaged now with conspiracy and nonsense that they literally believed a global pandemic was created to make Trump look bad. When you get to that level of delusional there isn't anything you can turn into a talking point. And right wing media is beyond evil in their use of misinformation.
You are far more tolerant than i David, i simply have come to the point where i ignore them. There's no point in arguing. I'm so tired of hearing these two things: "i want everything back to normal," and the ever present lament, "freedom."
And the irony is just this: All of us want things back to normal, all of us believe in freedom. Duh...doesn't matter, left right or in the middle we all want those to be at the core of our existence as we go forward.
The path there is simple, nothing profound or overly confusing: Get vaccinated. That's it, nothing more nothing less. You want to be free? You want things back to normal? Get vaccinated.
You kind of started to get to this point and then you stopped. Listening to the anti-vaxxers is just like listening to the big lie. Almost every argument starts with made up crap and the building blocks of more lies are piled on to reinforce the untruths. That's why there is no point arguing with them. Facts don't matter, only their twisted fabricated nonsense they have been fed by the con men feeding off the suckers.
As i said when i was trying to get you and Steve in a cage match with thousands in attendance we are headed to a very bad place. Remember, these are the "good months." Everyone is outside with less transmission. Come fall with huge indoor events and no masks, no social distancing and the delta variant growing in strength and spread something will have to give and it won't be more freedom and getting back to normal. One further speculation...watch those on the right arguing against getting vaccinated blame Biden.
Many of the conservative antivaxxers in my sphere are already blaming Biden. Because he didn't shut the borders down and purposely let the Delta variant into the country. Sigh.....🙄 Also pointing to the wobbly market (wobbly primarily due to the Delta surge) as proof his economic plan failed. I honestly think that IS the strategy, keep up the antivax push in order to destabilize the economy. Then they have something that sticks. But then again, I have become extremely cynical over the last 16 months, read with salt.
It makes me wonder just how many of the anti-vaxxers of the current are truly anti-vax in their beliefs, as opposed to those upset at Trump's defeat, who want to make President Biden fail.
I personally don't believe that individuals think of it this way. They have bought into the antivax rhetoric hook, line and sinker. And how could they not? They are so information isolated within the right wing mediasphere that nothing else penetrates. I do, however, believe that Fox and the entire gang of media, and the political establishment, is not this ignorant of facts. They obviously DO have an agenda; my suspicion is the only agenda that makes any sense to me about their motives. Lives lost are justifiable collateral damage. Idk.
I agree with what you said in the 1st paragraph Bill. I will gladly talk to and try to convince those who are reasonable, and many of these vax-hesitant people have decided to get vaccines, and I'm happy for that. But for others, they just say "we just want to ask questions", when they constantly keep moving the goalposts whenever they get an answer they don't like. And it is getting really annoying, to where I do what you do and ignore them. It is counterproductive to talk to them.
"The path there is simple, nothing profound or overly confusing: Get vaccinated. That's it, nothing more nothing less. You want to be free? You want things back to normal? Get vaccinated."
Getting a vaccine doesn't hurt at all. I will never understand why it had to become so political. I can't count how many of my friends from other countries are asking me why so many here in America are refusing them. They would give an arm and leg to get the vaccines. Maybe give them the vaccines these anti-vaxxers refused, and welcome them to America as new immigrants. Then offer these anti-vaxxers a one way trip to a third world country. Maybe only then, will they realize just how foolish they were for getting so petty over a freaking vaccine.
I am a senior with a couple of preconditions that would likely make me part of the high risk group from covid and that is why I got vaccinated at the earliest opportunity. What we saw and are seeing with the push to vaccinate the younger and healthier today is fear mongering and an exercise to effect control. Once we have got the high risk groups vaccinated this virus is nothing more than a tough years flu. Sorry if you don't see it but look at the data. The risk of serious illness or death for healthy people under 40 is tiny and under 25 is not measurable. We do not know enough about this vaccine to be encouraging kids to get the shot. We don't need to be experimenting on our future.
Our medical community has really let us down with the pursuit of therapeutics and if we were making serious advancements in this field we could lower the severe illness and death numbers for all healthy individuals to virtually zero. The rest of the world is leading the way with development of treatment regimens. This virus, thanks to China, whether intentional or accidental release, is going to be with us forever and we need to overcome it with a program of vaccines and natural/herd immunity or we will be walking around scared for the rest of our lives. That is not for me. Did you notice how the criminals are taking advantage of masks to escape being caught or prosecuted for their violent crimes. The acceptance of wearing masks is contributing to the escalated crime rates. It is also had a very serious effect on the psyche or our nation.
The push to get younger and healthier adults vaccinated is directly related to our ability to have a functioning hospital system:
"The state’s top doctor echoed the words of federal health officials Friday, calling COVID-19 in Tennessee 'a pandemic among the unvaccinated.' Department of Health Commissioner Dr. Lisa Piercey also reported unvaccinated people make up 97% of all COVID-19 hospitalizations and more than 98% of recent deaths."
"Latest numbers from TDH show 12% of ICU beds are available statewide, which is 240 our of 2,039 total."
"The Knox County Health Department tracks similar data, by compiling numbers from more than a dozen regional hospitals. Their numbers, last updated Tuesday, show 90.9% ICU beds are filled in our area, leaving 13 available. While their data includes an additional surge capacity of 543 beds, though their site clarifies the necessary staffing for that increase isn’t guaranteed."[1]
All it takes is one bad bus accident and Knoxville's out of ICU beds, and folks with real non-COVID emergencies start to get turned away.
You might have a point that this is fear-based if hospital capacity issues were not a problem, but that's not what we're seeing in many parts of the country.
"Our medical community has really let us down with the pursuit of therapeutics and if we were making serious advancements in this field we could lower the severe illness and death numbers for all healthy individuals to virtually zero."
We have accomplished this - in three or more different instances. It's called THE VACCINE. The best therapeutic is not getting sick in the first place, and the vaccine does this. (I'd rather not get a cold in the first place than be fortunate enough to have to use the best cold medicine possible.) I don't know why you think folks are eager to get sick, then get treated for the sickness, as opposed to avoiding the virus altogether. The vaccine is orders of magnitude cheaper than any hospital stay with the best therapeutics, so if you're not willing to take it and tough out COVID, at least do it for your pocket book and keeping our collective insurance rates lower. (Someone's paying for your hospital stay and therapeutics at the end of the day.)
"Did you notice how the criminals are taking advantage of masks to escape being caught or prosecuted for their violent crimes. The acceptance of wearing masks is contributing to the escalated crime rates. It is also had a very serious effect on the psyche or our nation."
Do you know how you do away with masks in our society? You get everyone vaccinated so that masks are no longer necessary. In Deep Blue urban Chicago, the only place these days I wear a mask is on the public transit. And that's because my city has done what they need to do and we're moving away from masks everywhere as quickly as we can. We did that by taking the shot. (We have other serious issues on the crime front, but to suggest that masking is part of that is absurd.)
"We do not know enough about this vaccine to be encouraging kids to get the shot. We don't need to be experimenting on our future."
I agree with you that we need more data on this, and we are collecting more data on this. But you know what? Do you know how we reduce the demand for kids to get the shot and lower the chances of them contracting and spreading the virus? By having the adults in their life that they come into contact with getting the shot themselves. If you care about kids' well-being and ability to return to normal after the past year and a half, encourage adults in their lives to get the shot.
If you're serious about actually looking at the data, please take a look at the percentage of COVID patients consuming medical capacity who are vaccinated versus those who are not. On your therapeutic point, take a look at the data about the small number of vaccinated people who do catch COVID (Texas Democrats, for example) and suffer severe effects from the virus. There's enough data at this point to compare the health outcomes of heavily vaccinated areas and those shunning the vaccine and it's simply no contest.[2]
[1] https://www.wate.com/news/local-news/knoxville-area-hospitals-facing-icu-capacity-problems-as-covid-19-continues-to-spread/
[2] https://fortune.com/2021/07/21/delta-variant-covid-cases-states-where-its-most-prevalent/
The one thing I got from your comment was that you went into Deep Blue Urban Chicago, without an armed guard. Brave man. I don't care about infections, every infection of a youthful healthy American is not much more than another American with the best kind of immunity from the virus, that is, a natural immunity.
You have missed the boat on therapeutics, this disease is 100% survivable without long lasting effects with early treatment. Just look at survivability numbers in the third world versus here. Don't ask goggle about this they hide the truth.
I've been living here without an armed guard or experiencing any crime for almost two decades now. You just have to be savvy about which neighborhoods you spend your time in and when. That's not to say that it couldn't be better - wow, could it - but it's much better than many other cities in the US.
As for the therapeutic angle, since you don't want me Googling for information, how about you be a mensch and share what numbers you have in mind, as well as the source they come from?
I'm particularly interested in a cost comparison getting a shot of the vaccine versus the cost of the therapeutic itself (combined with the supporting services, such as a hospital stay [if necessary] etc.). What I can tell you about the third world is that despite their therapeutics, they'd be happy to have the vaccines we're not taking[1], so we may be on the same page on sending what we have her that folks are resisting elsewhere where it may be put to productive use.
[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/poor-countries-to-urge-g-7-members-to-share-more-covid-19-vaccines-11623090059
That comment regarding security sounds like the people I was communicating with in Portland when ANTIFA was having their way with the city. Good Job. Anyone that can express those thoughts about 11 people getting shot last weekend deserves Lightfoot and everything the local DA brings to them. Sorry, don't buy it. The attitude that spawns a "Just keep them down on the plantation and everything will be OK" will help with reelection but will not help the country.
Therapeutics are another one of those messages that the Left does not want to be out there. The more people realize that this virus can be treated with 100% success in the otherwise healthy, like the common cold, to minimize the impact on the infected the more trouble they will have maintaining the fear level. It is all about the fear level, Time magazine talked about that during the run up to the last election. Funny how it was the Right that were the only ones that got upset at this, seems others don't mind being manipulated.
You're welcome to run for Chicago mayor in 2023 or DA in 2024 with your solutions. (Plenty of folks here - including myself - think that Foxx should be run out of the state.)
Getting back to the topic at hand, if the virus can be treated therapeutically with a 100% success rate, show me where that's happened with treatment population greater than 1000 people that are representative of the local underlying community. I'll note that you've already ignored my prior request for a link or something that would allow me to take your claims seriously, please don't leave us hanging with your therapeutic miracle.
Don't become one of HCI's examples of someone who moves the goalposts when asked to back up a claim that they're making.
I did not claim 100% success rate in all groups. I talked about the part of the population that really does not need to be vaccinated. The youthful otherwise healthy group. I would also count in that group, people that have developed their own immunity by prior infection. That is one of the first things that got me questioning the authorities on this virus and vaccine, why was it not tested on people with prior infections and a developed natural immune response, yet the authorities were telling all of those people they needed to be vaccinated. HMMM.
Fox is pointing Chicago in the wrong direction but the Mayor is even worse. That is one sick puppy that the Left has elected.
Critical thinking and questioning all that comes from the media is all I need to drive me to the research that I point to. You are on your own if you want to find the truth.
Gonna be tough for Larry to do, considering he doesn't trust the largest search engine (because he doesn't understand how the algorithm works).
How about Bing/Yahoo/DuckDuckGo? Of course, their algorithms will do the same/similar as Google - whatever has the most content/searches is what will be listed first (most of the time).
'cause vaccines don't cause negative effects after a long period of time has passed, while viruses do (e.g. varicella causing chicken pox and then later shingles). Your focus exclusively on death is a great example of tunnel-vision, as you ignore rising rates of infection and hospitalization.
You want this to end? Then urge people to get themselves and their kids vaccinated. Otherwise, you just leave a large population (prone to spreading diseases) unprotected and allowing the virus to mutate.
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/11/small-study-reveals-details-of-brain-damage-in-covid-19-patients/
Welcome to the fear zone, I do my best to stay away so you won't have to worry about interacting with me.
Or you know: actual risk analysis of the virus and the risks involved.
As I said, you leave far too much out of your analysis.
I think the Cleveland Rocks sounds good. I didn't think there was anything offensive about the Cleveland Indians name at all, but I think I can get used to the new name. With that said, it'll be very interesting to see what will be the new name of the team once known as the Washington Redskins. I remember my youthful days making fun of how the Redskins constantly sucked(apologizes in advance to any fan out there!), and would refer to them as the Washington Deadskins. That and the Cowboys were the teams that I disliked the most as in my youth. Emmitt Smith just rubbed me off the wrong way, and so I savored a lot of loss by the Dallas Cowgirls. I don't hate these teams as did as I was a youngster, but if the Redskins became the Washington Sux(the nomenclature counterpart to the Cleveland Rocks), it would still be an accurate description of how the team has been playing for many years now. ;)
Cleveland Rocks is amateurish compared to the greatest team name ever - Macon Whoopee, minor league hockey in Macon GA.
What business do Southerners have playing hockey? ;-)
Absolutely none. It's like soccer on ice.
It is time for Fox News to pull the plug on Carlson just like they did on Lou Dobbs when he kept asserting the election was stolen from Trump. Tucker's show has a lot of viewers, and Fox needs to make the decision between choosing what is lucrative, and what is morally correct.
At this point, if people choose not to get the vaccine, they don't deserve one. After a certain point, to heck with them. Just send the doses overseas in developing countries where many people would gladly get it. And they sure as heck would be far more grateful for it than the ones here who refuse it. It would great diplomacy and for building coalitions to counter China. Make jabs mandatory for the military, hospitals, schools. But for individuals who stubbornly refuse, make them pay for their decision by giving away their dose to someone else more deserving. We would be wasting our time trying to make them get jabbed, giving fuel to Tucker and Berenson to proclaim on the coming of the Fourth Reich, and allowing these vax-refusers to play victim and denigrate our society even further. I don't want my tax money used on them anymore, as this is getting ridiculous. We've discussed here previously at the Racket about the Carrot and Stick approach, and I think will go a long way in rewarding the responsible, and making the irresponsible pay a big price for their poor choices.
I know this isn't popular among on the political right, but vaccine passports strengthens a free market by giving businesses the resources it needs to ensure a safe commercial/retail environment. They wouldn't have to worry about the unvaxxed costing them business, by having responsible consumers shy away. Small businesses in particular would benefit from this. And I agree with allowing health insurance companies to charge higher premiums and fees for the unvaxxed(minus the few who cannot get a vaccine for health reasons). Jack them up extremely high, might I add, and make it hurt. The vaccine passports will give airlines a tool to deny boarding for the purposefully unvaxxed, and as a frequent air traveler myself, I would welcome that. Also, if you don't get vaccinated, then no government handouts or benefits to you, period. Give a recurring tax credit for the vaxxed, making the unvaxxed end up with a higher tax liability. Local and state governments can either require workplaces to have their workers vaxxed, or they can provide tax breaks for companies that require it. Also, require any organization that receives Federal/State monies to have their employees vaccinated. If they don't, then they forfeit their grants and benefits. I think this Carrot and stick approach allows for a healthy combination of the free market and government rules to make sure we aren't the ones paying for the poor choices of others.
+1 for the Cleveland Rocks!
100% agreed!
Right wing media is evil. They have successfully convinced a very stupid portion of our country that only they can be trusted. And they are literally leading those people to their deaths.
You have found a media that is trustworthy, maybe CNN or MSNBC?
And this is why right wing media is so successful in their lies. They have convinced people like you that the slant of actual news organizations is worse or the same as lying about a global pandemic. CNN or MSNBC is leaps and bounds more accurate than even the best right wing news source. And that is all that should matter not whether they like the same things as you.
That's a good one.
It is now May 2023 and I hope you are thoroughly ashamed that you wrote such totalitarian tosh. Some of us also got it wrong, like my taking jabs 1 and 2 in Jan and Feb 2020 but not being such a twit, twerp and pillock to take another