I have always said that the reason why we have the Rapture wasn't just to save us from enduring the Tribulation, but because the testimony of Church (as in Christ's Body, which consisted of local, born-again, Bible-believing, New Testament churches of any denomination) had gotten to the point where it was so bad that Church could not impact anyone's spiritual life with its message of Gospel. In fact, one of signs that we are living in end time is spiritual apostasy. It would seem that far more churches are now experiencing spiritual apostasy in their leadership positions.
So, this kind of problem is not surprising to say at least from my perspective.
I really wasn't sure whether I would comment. I knew of this world 30 years ago while I was ingrained in it. When your religion makes it clear that women and children are lesser than men this is what happens. And it will continue to happen until you deal with that clearly false premise.
It makes me sick to think about all the girls being groomed to think they are less than men. And then to have their religion held to their necks if they even think about confronting that issue.
Last thing I will say is that this is the lens you should use anytime someone on the right makes the claim that the left are grooming people. We empower people, the right and christians depower them. Who are really the groomers again?
I don’t think that the Bible teaches that women are less than men. It does teach that they are different and have different roles, including roles in the church.
Having said that, I do think that women these days are having to fill men’s roles in the church and families because so many men are not living up to their responsibilities.
I’ll add that the Bible was also a product of its time. I’m not sure how much is a reflection of that culture and how much was spiritual guidance. There are different opinions on that.
The problem with the "Bible as a product of its time" is that severely downplays the inerrancy of "The Word" that most(?) Christians are brought up on. I don't know how that plays in your denomination, but the "unchanging" nature of the Bible was a big argument towards its authenticity and the idea that it was fundamentally authored by the Almighty.
In Christian circles, I've been seeing some discussion about the Positive World, Neutral World, and Negative World where one's public affiliation with the the faith reflected upon the faithful in a particular era. In Positive World, a public Christian was seen as virtuous (lasting until 1994). In Neutral World, public Christianity neither reflected well or poorly on the public Christian (1994 to 2014). In Negative World (2014 to the present), being a public Christian became black mark against one's reputation[1]. I made a (likely unoriginal) point elsewhere that the dates separating the various eras coincide nicely with Christianity as a political enterprise more than a Gospel-centric enterprise. 1994 saw the achievement of Ralph Reed's project with the ascension of Newt Gingrich in the House of Representatives and 2014 was the year before Trump came down his elevator and public Christians tripped over themselves to keep grant an unrepentant and serial sinner "mulligans" in exchange for access to political power (Jerry Falwell Jr. likely being the best example). Christianity became less about saving souls for the hereafter and more about securing power and dominion in a world with a concrete (if unknown) expiration date.
Given the rot that emerges when power and influence in Christianity becomes concentrated in national organizations (the EXACT same argument against concentrating political power in Washington as opposed to local areas and state capitals), is it possible that one way to pull (Protestant) Christianity out of Negative World is to shun national organizations in favor of providing the best witness possible at the local level, and re-establishing the religion's reputation through local good works and Christians behaving more like Christ than Rick Santorum? Congregations forcefully repudiating and abandoning organizations like the SBC and going it alone or with loose confederations of other local churches?
Or have we passed the event horizon where this is even possible?
Personally, I think the truths of the Bible are inerrant, but that the text may contain errors and cultural artifacts. When people are involved, errors creep in, especially over thousands of years of translation.
I’m reminded of an example in the Bible As History where biblical authors/editors apparently inadvertently transposed the two sides in a battle. Sorry, but I can’t recall the passage offhand.
Submissive is to be less than. And the bible reminds women to submit dozens of times. Paul(who was a piece of trash btw) couldn't go a book without reminding women they are suppose to shut up and do what they are told.
Although my favorite passage was by Peter, "Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives.
Now sure the "product of its time" would work if the whole of christendom didn't still follow the rules laid out back then.
In short if a religion tells you to submit to anything other than an all powerful god you should start running now. Because eventually whatever man you are submitting to will use that to abuse you. If not you then your kids. And that is if you are lucky, if you are unlucky to fall for the really out there religions you may find yourself selling everything you own and then injecting poison into your kids before you drink the flavoraid.
I have always said that the reason why we have the Rapture wasn't just to save us from enduring the Tribulation, but because the testimony of Church (as in Christ's Body, which consisted of local, born-again, Bible-believing, New Testament churches of any denomination) had gotten to the point where it was so bad that Church could not impact anyone's spiritual life with its message of Gospel. In fact, one of signs that we are living in end time is spiritual apostasy. It would seem that far more churches are now experiencing spiritual apostasy in their leadership positions.
So, this kind of problem is not surprising to say at least from my perspective.
I really wasn't sure whether I would comment. I knew of this world 30 years ago while I was ingrained in it. When your religion makes it clear that women and children are lesser than men this is what happens. And it will continue to happen until you deal with that clearly false premise.
It makes me sick to think about all the girls being groomed to think they are less than men. And then to have their religion held to their necks if they even think about confronting that issue.
Last thing I will say is that this is the lens you should use anytime someone on the right makes the claim that the left are grooming people. We empower people, the right and christians depower them. Who are really the groomers again?
I don’t think that the Bible teaches that women are less than men. It does teach that they are different and have different roles, including roles in the church.
Having said that, I do think that women these days are having to fill men’s roles in the church and families because so many men are not living up to their responsibilities.
I’ll add that the Bible was also a product of its time. I’m not sure how much is a reflection of that culture and how much was spiritual guidance. There are different opinions on that.
The problem with the "Bible as a product of its time" is that severely downplays the inerrancy of "The Word" that most(?) Christians are brought up on. I don't know how that plays in your denomination, but the "unchanging" nature of the Bible was a big argument towards its authenticity and the idea that it was fundamentally authored by the Almighty.
In Christian circles, I've been seeing some discussion about the Positive World, Neutral World, and Negative World where one's public affiliation with the the faith reflected upon the faithful in a particular era. In Positive World, a public Christian was seen as virtuous (lasting until 1994). In Neutral World, public Christianity neither reflected well or poorly on the public Christian (1994 to 2014). In Negative World (2014 to the present), being a public Christian became black mark against one's reputation[1]. I made a (likely unoriginal) point elsewhere that the dates separating the various eras coincide nicely with Christianity as a political enterprise more than a Gospel-centric enterprise. 1994 saw the achievement of Ralph Reed's project with the ascension of Newt Gingrich in the House of Representatives and 2014 was the year before Trump came down his elevator and public Christians tripped over themselves to keep grant an unrepentant and serial sinner "mulligans" in exchange for access to political power (Jerry Falwell Jr. likely being the best example). Christianity became less about saving souls for the hereafter and more about securing power and dominion in a world with a concrete (if unknown) expiration date.
Given the rot that emerges when power and influence in Christianity becomes concentrated in national organizations (the EXACT same argument against concentrating political power in Washington as opposed to local areas and state capitals), is it possible that one way to pull (Protestant) Christianity out of Negative World is to shun national organizations in favor of providing the best witness possible at the local level, and re-establishing the religion's reputation through local good works and Christians behaving more like Christ than Rick Santorum? Congregations forcefully repudiating and abandoning organizations like the SBC and going it alone or with loose confederations of other local churches?
Or have we passed the event horizon where this is even possible?
[1] https://aaronrenn.substack.com/p/newsletter-13-the-lost-world-of-american
Personally, I think the truths of the Bible are inerrant, but that the text may contain errors and cultural artifacts. When people are involved, errors creep in, especially over thousands of years of translation.
I’m reminded of an example in the Bible As History where biblical authors/editors apparently inadvertently transposed the two sides in a battle. Sorry, but I can’t recall the passage offhand.
Submissive is to be less than. And the bible reminds women to submit dozens of times. Paul(who was a piece of trash btw) couldn't go a book without reminding women they are suppose to shut up and do what they are told.
Although my favorite passage was by Peter, "Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives.
Now sure the "product of its time" would work if the whole of christendom didn't still follow the rules laid out back then.
In short if a religion tells you to submit to anything other than an all powerful god you should start running now. Because eventually whatever man you are submitting to will use that to abuse you. If not you then your kids. And that is if you are lucky, if you are unlucky to fall for the really out there religions you may find yourself selling everything you own and then injecting poison into your kids before you drink the flavoraid.
Context is important. The same passage tells husbands to have a self-sacrificing love for their wives. It isn’t a man-is-boss teaching.