Ditto. Hopefully more and more of our fellow right leaning Americans see things the same way as we do. I'm interested to see how the midterm GOP primaries turn out, as it will tell us a lot in where the party is sentiment wise in relation to Trump. Fingers crossed.
Trump was/is utterly unqualified to be president. I also believe Biden is not qualified (mostly due to age). However Trump, I still believe, is more easily controlled in office than out. With him out we are heading for mass political violence. That drove my decision in 2020.
Feb 17, 2022·edited Feb 17, 2022Liked by Chris J. Karr
I do very much agree with your post here Steve, and I'm glad you're calling out Christians on their ongoing support of Trump. (Your piece focused primarily on Trump's thoroughly selfish, conman, sleazy, snakelike approach to his business, but his personal whoring around and his treatment and objectification of women are equally as sick and repulsive.) One thing you said in your comment here (which you also wrote a piece about earlier last year) is that you believe Trump would be more easily controlled in office as president than out of office.
When I read your piece last year it struck me as very strange, but I didn't comment on it at that time (and I don't remember anyone else questioning your views at that time either). I'll try to be relatively brief and start by saying that I think that's a very naive perspective. If Trump were president again, I believe he would surround himself with even more sycophants and yes men than he did the first time and there would be no way to control him! I could be mistaken, but are you suggesting that having Trump as president would calm him down and make him less explosive and volatile in his actions and statements? If so, that is what is called appeasement, and in my opinion this would be the worst situation to engage in appeasement of that nature.
Trying to placate a mobster and would be dictator (who is at the opposite end of being 'benevolent') only makes them want to take and control more. Trump would put himself even more above the law (which he tried to do as president the first time) and there would be zero accountability for him. Trump has displayed nothing but selfishness and narcissism in his actions and life so far (as you pointed out in your piece here), and giving him the power of the presidency is the exact opposite of what the country needs (or what would truly be good for him).
The other thing that crossed my mind when reading your article from last year (about it being better if Trump were president than if not), is that you were making a provocative statement, knowing that your opinion on the matter doesn't really affect anything. If so, that's fair enough...sometimes provocative statements can generate interesting conversations, and by repeating your idea in your comment here, you've provoked my reply. 😉 At any rate, am sharing my views and opinions not to create an argument, but as opening for further discussion on this issue if it's of interest. Thanks for reading it in that light.
"are you suggesting that having Trump as president would calm him down and make him less explosive and volatile in his actions and statements?" No, and yes.
In the White House, Trump is surrounded by people who need to do the work of government. His statements have consequence. Being explosive and volatile are not uncommon among presidents. I think in a second term, even should Trump try to surround himself with sycophants (and he tried in his first term), the weight of governing would counterbalance his clown show. In other words, someone needs to be competent, and they'd find a way to ignore him. I saw little evidence that Trump's style (apart from COVID, which is a special case for everyone) affected decisions any differently than other presidents who wanted things their own way.
"Trump would put himself even more above the law (which he tried to do as president the first time) and there would be zero accountability for him." With a two-term limit, and mid-term elections, I believe there's plenty of accountability. Sure, Trump acted like a dictator, but the courts functioned, the administrative state resisted when he overstepped.
I think the main objection many people have to Trump's presidency, calling it an existential threat, is that they didn't agree with his policies and directions. Obama had plenty of dictatorial moments, but the same people who disagree with Trump's policies (not his style or competence or personality) forgive Obama while calling Trump the next Hitler. They also called Bush a Hitler, and Bush had plenty of dicatatorial moments. The main problem with Trump is what Bush called "some weird shit" during Trump's inauguration.
The danger of Trump wasn't his actions in the White House, it's his control of the popular front that put him there. In the White House, the controls, courts, and administrative state limit his actions. Out of the White House, even cut off from Twitter, Trump commands a sizable cohort who are willing to resort to coersion and even violence. Nothing retrains Trump outside the White House except the threat (or reality) of prison. And if Trump enters a courthouse for trial, be prepared for the war to start. Even during his impeachments, this didn't happen. Trump's political enemies resorted to political violence.
Don't get me wrong: I think Trump should have been convicted in his second impeachment. He lost the 2020 election and when cornered like that, Trump acts impulsively, stupidly, dangerous. Even then, the wheels of governing crushed his plans, including Mike Pence, the most appeasing elected official Trump had.
I don't think Trump should have ever been president, even taking into account the truly painful experience we'd have had with Hillary. She's awful and I was never going to vote for her. After 4 years of Trump, I believed (and continue to believe), that a second term would have been the least bad option. I think events will prove me right, unfortunately, but it's hard to prove a counterfactual (e.g. how bad would Trump winning have been?)
Hmmmm...interesting reply Steve. We certainly agree that Trump is utterly unqualified to be president now (and was utterly unqualified back in 2016 as well). If I understood correctly, your piece from last year and comment to this thread was to compare the damage and danger of having Trump as president to the damage and danger he can do as a private citizen and former president. (If I have that right, this is a different hypothetical question than comparing Trump as president to Biden as president.)
My simple response is that in my opinion Trump would have a much bigger megaphone and much more power to destroy our democracy and to further corrupt the Republican party (which you accurately stated he has done, and which also corrupts the entire country) as president than as a private citizen.
Trump appeals to and brings out the base impulses in people (quite like an antiChrist...which you accurately all but said he is). As you said there is nothing Christian at all in his actions and behavior (at least not to this point in his life, but it's always worth leaving the door open).
I just can't go along with the idea that giving him the enormous power and huge megaphone that comes with being president would be better than having him as a private citizen. As you said at the end of your article: "Either put the man in jail, or put him in media and political exile. But don’t keep quoting him and hand wringing over him. Trump is toxic in all forms."
This column is timeless and didn't age one bit. Thank you Steve for your moral clarity. It is hard to believe 7 years passed so quickly. Unlike your column, I aged during this intervening time, but hopefully not too much(aside from a grayer scalp).
I remember this piece back from The Resurgent era. Thanks for bringing it back.
This is why I never supported the guy. Christians should have higher priorities than revenge.
Ditto. Hopefully more and more of our fellow right leaning Americans see things the same way as we do. I'm interested to see how the midterm GOP primaries turn out, as it will tell us a lot in where the party is sentiment wise in relation to Trump. Fingers crossed.
Wow! You wrote this in 2015 and yet voted for Trump in 2020???? I know you have stated your reasons but none trump your 2015 reasoning.
Trump was/is utterly unqualified to be president. I also believe Biden is not qualified (mostly due to age). However Trump, I still believe, is more easily controlled in office than out. With him out we are heading for mass political violence. That drove my decision in 2020.
I do very much agree with your post here Steve, and I'm glad you're calling out Christians on their ongoing support of Trump. (Your piece focused primarily on Trump's thoroughly selfish, conman, sleazy, snakelike approach to his business, but his personal whoring around and his treatment and objectification of women are equally as sick and repulsive.) One thing you said in your comment here (which you also wrote a piece about earlier last year) is that you believe Trump would be more easily controlled in office as president than out of office.
When I read your piece last year it struck me as very strange, but I didn't comment on it at that time (and I don't remember anyone else questioning your views at that time either). I'll try to be relatively brief and start by saying that I think that's a very naive perspective. If Trump were president again, I believe he would surround himself with even more sycophants and yes men than he did the first time and there would be no way to control him! I could be mistaken, but are you suggesting that having Trump as president would calm him down and make him less explosive and volatile in his actions and statements? If so, that is what is called appeasement, and in my opinion this would be the worst situation to engage in appeasement of that nature.
Trying to placate a mobster and would be dictator (who is at the opposite end of being 'benevolent') only makes them want to take and control more. Trump would put himself even more above the law (which he tried to do as president the first time) and there would be zero accountability for him. Trump has displayed nothing but selfishness and narcissism in his actions and life so far (as you pointed out in your piece here), and giving him the power of the presidency is the exact opposite of what the country needs (or what would truly be good for him).
The other thing that crossed my mind when reading your article from last year (about it being better if Trump were president than if not), is that you were making a provocative statement, knowing that your opinion on the matter doesn't really affect anything. If so, that's fair enough...sometimes provocative statements can generate interesting conversations, and by repeating your idea in your comment here, you've provoked my reply. 😉 At any rate, am sharing my views and opinions not to create an argument, but as opening for further discussion on this issue if it's of interest. Thanks for reading it in that light.
Let me address your questions one at a time.
"are you suggesting that having Trump as president would calm him down and make him less explosive and volatile in his actions and statements?" No, and yes.
In the White House, Trump is surrounded by people who need to do the work of government. His statements have consequence. Being explosive and volatile are not uncommon among presidents. I think in a second term, even should Trump try to surround himself with sycophants (and he tried in his first term), the weight of governing would counterbalance his clown show. In other words, someone needs to be competent, and they'd find a way to ignore him. I saw little evidence that Trump's style (apart from COVID, which is a special case for everyone) affected decisions any differently than other presidents who wanted things their own way.
"Trump would put himself even more above the law (which he tried to do as president the first time) and there would be zero accountability for him." With a two-term limit, and mid-term elections, I believe there's plenty of accountability. Sure, Trump acted like a dictator, but the courts functioned, the administrative state resisted when he overstepped.
I think the main objection many people have to Trump's presidency, calling it an existential threat, is that they didn't agree with his policies and directions. Obama had plenty of dictatorial moments, but the same people who disagree with Trump's policies (not his style or competence or personality) forgive Obama while calling Trump the next Hitler. They also called Bush a Hitler, and Bush had plenty of dicatatorial moments. The main problem with Trump is what Bush called "some weird shit" during Trump's inauguration.
The danger of Trump wasn't his actions in the White House, it's his control of the popular front that put him there. In the White House, the controls, courts, and administrative state limit his actions. Out of the White House, even cut off from Twitter, Trump commands a sizable cohort who are willing to resort to coersion and even violence. Nothing retrains Trump outside the White House except the threat (or reality) of prison. And if Trump enters a courthouse for trial, be prepared for the war to start. Even during his impeachments, this didn't happen. Trump's political enemies resorted to political violence.
Don't get me wrong: I think Trump should have been convicted in his second impeachment. He lost the 2020 election and when cornered like that, Trump acts impulsively, stupidly, dangerous. Even then, the wheels of governing crushed his plans, including Mike Pence, the most appeasing elected official Trump had.
I don't think Trump should have ever been president, even taking into account the truly painful experience we'd have had with Hillary. She's awful and I was never going to vote for her. After 4 years of Trump, I believed (and continue to believe), that a second term would have been the least bad option. I think events will prove me right, unfortunately, but it's hard to prove a counterfactual (e.g. how bad would Trump winning have been?)
Hmmmm...interesting reply Steve. We certainly agree that Trump is utterly unqualified to be president now (and was utterly unqualified back in 2016 as well). If I understood correctly, your piece from last year and comment to this thread was to compare the damage and danger of having Trump as president to the damage and danger he can do as a private citizen and former president. (If I have that right, this is a different hypothetical question than comparing Trump as president to Biden as president.)
My simple response is that in my opinion Trump would have a much bigger megaphone and much more power to destroy our democracy and to further corrupt the Republican party (which you accurately stated he has done, and which also corrupts the entire country) as president than as a private citizen.
Trump appeals to and brings out the base impulses in people (quite like an antiChrist...which you accurately all but said he is). As you said there is nothing Christian at all in his actions and behavior (at least not to this point in his life, but it's always worth leaving the door open).
I just can't go along with the idea that giving him the enormous power and huge megaphone that comes with being president would be better than having him as a private citizen. As you said at the end of your article: "Either put the man in jail, or put him in media and political exile. But don’t keep quoting him and hand wringing over him. Trump is toxic in all forms."
You inspired this morning’s thoughts and my post.
Glad to be of service. 😉
This column is timeless and didn't age one bit. Thank you Steve for your moral clarity. It is hard to believe 7 years passed so quickly. Unlike your column, I aged during this intervening time, but hopefully not too much(aside from a grayer scalp).