"But rights are not absolute. How far should parental rights be extended in this area?"
My personal feelings (as someone WITHOUT children) is that parental rights in the transgender case should mirror their local rights when it comes to other elective surgeries and medical procedures in their relevant jurisdiction. I don't see a lot of reason to treat a 15 year old wanting to get gender transition surgery any differently than a 15 year old girl getting breast work done. (It does happen[1].)
From a policy perspective, I remain a Federalist on this issue - let's leave it up to States to decide how to manage this issue themselves, and skip attempting to answer this question on a national level. Let the advocates in each State make their appeals to the voters in each State and decide the issue at the ballot box (through referendums or representatives).
I suspect (but do not claim with any certainty) the increasing trend of "coming out" is driven by a social contagion. I do agree that whatever, however disgusting I find it, adults do that harm no one else is generally their business. Of course, we normal people have to pick up the pieces and finance whatever remediation is required for self-destructive behavior which are almost a given for the mentally ill.
Kids are a different matter. Caution should be the rule. No irreversible or potentially dangerous procedures should be allowed before puberty. The age of consent for drastic procedures will vary and a lot of lawsuits are inevitable.
I think it is much like gay people: it is now more acceptable to be openly trans than it used to be. One should also note the history of transgender therapies: these are not new things, and there are protocols for their use.
There is a difference between gay conversion therapy and gender affirmation therapies: the former is typically forced upon the gay youth, while gender affirming therapies are only applied when the youth, parents, and doctor agree that said therapies are appropriate. I know someone that is trans: she had to go through 2 years of psychological evaluation/therapy prior to being declared with gender dysphoria/approved for gender affirmation surgery. That is the requirement in California, at minimum. (Granted, she was over 18: but those under 18 must have parental approval before any surgery is performed)
Regarding sports: the best thing to do is let the sports governing bodies set standards for trans involvement. Of course, the only focus has been on male-to-female trans athletes: female-to-male trans athletes don't come into the discussion at all. (This is also true of bathroom usage: laws stating someone must use the bathroom of their gender at birth will result in people that look very manly being forced to use women's bathrooms. [Or women that dress differently/have different haircuts being accosted as being trans when they are in fact not])
Twice in my life I have been embarrassed by entering the wrong gender bathroom. Once alcohol was involved but I did notice the absence of urinals before I got into trouble. The other time, there were two young ladies leaving and laughing at me before I got far.
I suppose if everyone behaves themselves, it doesn't matter as long as there are provisions for individual privacy. But there is an increased chance of mischief or worse - especially in more secluded locations.
The only issue is with multi-person facilities, and generally speaking people do behave themselves - 'cause I dunno about you, but I just want to get my (or my kids') business done and get out.
For single-person bathrooms, they should be unisex/all gender anyway.
Most people do behave themselves. Boundaries are established to protect against those who don't - mostly men.
There is little privacy in male restrooms. There was absolutely zero privacy in Army barracks. We are used to it. Women aren't unless it suits their needs. Female sports reporters have access to men's locker rooms. Male reporters do not have access to female locker rooms. I have been in stadium men's restrooms in Atlanta sports venues when women just strolled in to find an unoccupied stall. That did bother some guys.
It's not comfortable for anyone to be using multi-person public restrooms. I've never seen an issue in a men's bathroom: and what sort of statistics do we have on men behaving badly in a restroom?
In terms of privacy, it depends on the facilities. I've been in restrooms where urinals are in one area and stalls another, with division between. Most typically urinals are one the way to the stalls. Or at Oakland Coliseum: the old school troughs.... Now that's intimidating for a little kid.
At least one man claiming to be a female has raped a woman in a restroom. I'll bet there are more but it doesn't take many instances to cause concerns.
I haven't seen the stall / urinal divisions you mention but I'm not surprised they exist in California. One pretty classy joint I'm familiar with that still had troughs the last time I was there is Augusta National Golf Club. I did not see any women strolling in there. The security presence is unbelievable.
You can also find incidents where cis-females sexually assaulted a trans-female.
Bad actors will do what bad actors do, regardless of the law. The question is whether more harm than good is being done: we have already seen cis-females being accused of being trans due to their clothing/haircuts/body features (like being a double-mastectomy cancer survivor). In Florida that now means DNA tests and genital inspections.
"But rights are not absolute. How far should parental rights be extended in this area?"
My personal feelings (as someone WITHOUT children) is that parental rights in the transgender case should mirror their local rights when it comes to other elective surgeries and medical procedures in their relevant jurisdiction. I don't see a lot of reason to treat a 15 year old wanting to get gender transition surgery any differently than a 15 year old girl getting breast work done. (It does happen[1].)
From a policy perspective, I remain a Federalist on this issue - let's leave it up to States to decide how to manage this issue themselves, and skip attempting to answer this question on a national level. Let the advocates in each State make their appeals to the voters in each State and decide the issue at the ballot box (through referendums or representatives).
[1] https://www.the-sun.com/entertainment/2503251/punky-brewsters-soleil-moon-frye-breast-reduction-teen-bullies/
I think I’d oppose boob jobs for kids as well, especially if they haven’t stopped growing naturally.
There's also breast reduction surgery. And nose jobs.
Just asking. Are breast reductions and nose jobs really done on kids who are still growing? It seems premature with no guaranteed outcome.
Breast reductions for back pain/posture/[insert related health issue here]? Yes.
Nose jobs because someone doesn't like the bump on their nose? Yes.
Thanks! I would have thought that further growth might negate what was done. I suppose it's like circumcision.
I suspect (but do not claim with any certainty) the increasing trend of "coming out" is driven by a social contagion. I do agree that whatever, however disgusting I find it, adults do that harm no one else is generally their business. Of course, we normal people have to pick up the pieces and finance whatever remediation is required for self-destructive behavior which are almost a given for the mentally ill.
Kids are a different matter. Caution should be the rule. No irreversible or potentially dangerous procedures should be allowed before puberty. The age of consent for drastic procedures will vary and a lot of lawsuits are inevitable.
I think it is much like gay people: it is now more acceptable to be openly trans than it used to be. One should also note the history of transgender therapies: these are not new things, and there are protocols for their use.
There is a difference between gay conversion therapy and gender affirmation therapies: the former is typically forced upon the gay youth, while gender affirming therapies are only applied when the youth, parents, and doctor agree that said therapies are appropriate. I know someone that is trans: she had to go through 2 years of psychological evaluation/therapy prior to being declared with gender dysphoria/approved for gender affirmation surgery. That is the requirement in California, at minimum. (Granted, she was over 18: but those under 18 must have parental approval before any surgery is performed)
Regarding sports: the best thing to do is let the sports governing bodies set standards for trans involvement. Of course, the only focus has been on male-to-female trans athletes: female-to-male trans athletes don't come into the discussion at all. (This is also true of bathroom usage: laws stating someone must use the bathroom of their gender at birth will result in people that look very manly being forced to use women's bathrooms. [Or women that dress differently/have different haircuts being accosted as being trans when they are in fact not])
Twice in my life I have been embarrassed by entering the wrong gender bathroom. Once alcohol was involved but I did notice the absence of urinals before I got into trouble. The other time, there were two young ladies leaving and laughing at me before I got far.
I suppose if everyone behaves themselves, it doesn't matter as long as there are provisions for individual privacy. But there is an increased chance of mischief or worse - especially in more secluded locations.
The only issue is with multi-person facilities, and generally speaking people do behave themselves - 'cause I dunno about you, but I just want to get my (or my kids') business done and get out.
For single-person bathrooms, they should be unisex/all gender anyway.
Most people do behave themselves. Boundaries are established to protect against those who don't - mostly men.
There is little privacy in male restrooms. There was absolutely zero privacy in Army barracks. We are used to it. Women aren't unless it suits their needs. Female sports reporters have access to men's locker rooms. Male reporters do not have access to female locker rooms. I have been in stadium men's restrooms in Atlanta sports venues when women just strolled in to find an unoccupied stall. That did bother some guys.
It's not comfortable for anyone to be using multi-person public restrooms. I've never seen an issue in a men's bathroom: and what sort of statistics do we have on men behaving badly in a restroom?
In terms of privacy, it depends on the facilities. I've been in restrooms where urinals are in one area and stalls another, with division between. Most typically urinals are one the way to the stalls. Or at Oakland Coliseum: the old school troughs.... Now that's intimidating for a little kid.
At least one man claiming to be a female has raped a woman in a restroom. I'll bet there are more but it doesn't take many instances to cause concerns.
I haven't seen the stall / urinal divisions you mention but I'm not surprised they exist in California. One pretty classy joint I'm familiar with that still had troughs the last time I was there is Augusta National Golf Club. I did not see any women strolling in there. The security presence is unbelievable.
Those were in an airport, not in CA.
You can also find incidents where cis-females sexually assaulted a trans-female.
Bad actors will do what bad actors do, regardless of the law. The question is whether more harm than good is being done: we have already seen cis-females being accused of being trans due to their clothing/haircuts/body features (like being a double-mastectomy cancer survivor). In Florida that now means DNA tests and genital inspections.