I wonder if this will get Mitch and others thinking about invoking the 14th Amendment to disqualify Trump. It'dhave been better to convict and disqualify (and not try to have their cake and eat it too by letting him off on procedural arguments), but at least there's still an option.
No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
I agree that Congress cannot just pass a resolution on its own without some serious constitutional challenges, but I think if Trump is found guilty in civil/criminal court that they could then plausibly state that it applies.
It was specifically written for participants in the Civil War rebellion. I doubt it could reasonably be made to stick. In fact I don’t see any case of inciting rebellion or sedition succeeding. Georgia’s case would be influencing the administration of an election which is not disqualifying. It could put Trump behind bars where he couldn’t run but I don’t think even the rosiest anti-Trump proponent sees it happening.
And there weren't enough yea votes to build the political will that would allow Biden to back charging Trump in Federal court, even though a majority found him guilty.
In terms of leaving the GOP, it may require those who are anti-Trump/pro-Democracy to put their policy preferences to the side, register as Democrat, and vote in Dem primaries to influence the candidate selection more towards the center so the policy sacrifices needed to stamp out Trump and the anti-democratic movement are minimized.
I would if I could, if it was the party it was even in 1998, but it’s not and I can’t. This is an opportunity for the Dems to open a big tent though. Unfortunately they can’t see it.
It's just something to consider: that the challenge faced may require great sacrifices. If the moderates are the ones winning primaries, then that will feed upward. Leadership has to respect those views, and will then moderate the policies put forth to attract that big tent.
I for one would rather see more politically realistic policies than the GND.
Both well written and well thought out Steve and now the only problem is what to do in trying to move forward. The cost to the republican party has been enormous and many of the state parties have been captured by fools. Think not? One only has to look at Kelli Ward in AZ, a pure crackpot who censured Gov Ducey and others.
It's ultimately the price to be paid to support trump. Enough is never enough. Good people who tried to be loyal without being corrupted by his antics and lies. The biggest question was, could McConnell have brought along enough Senators to convict him? We'll never know but he will always wonder, were there 7 more?
Sadly, it's not just Mitch who will lose, so will the country as a whole. I'm not sure he escapes the trials and tribulations that face him and frankly that may be the only way to end his reign of terror. On a brighter note, he will go down in history books as the worst president ever elected.
I don’t see that as a “brighter note.” He had potential. Even if he lost Nov 3 and conceded he would not have been rated “worst.” It’s sad he flushed it all down the toilet.
My apologies Steve, it was said tongue in cheek. There's nothing "brighter" about any of his antics or his place in history. And, i must correct, Mitch needed ten more votes...do you think he could have gotten them?
Frankly, yes. McConnell could have convinced Schumer to (1) include Kinzinger on the House Managers team, (2) to solicit depositions from relevant witnesses, (3) allow both parties to call pre-negotiated witnesses at trial, and (4) set rules prohibiting Senators from talking to Trump counsel. Those ground rules could have persuaded 9 more Senators (along with his own vote) to convict. I believe it. I think McConnell underestimated Trump’s ability to be a chameleon and to find his audience.
Maybe the only way to move on from Trump will be to move on from the GOP?
I wonder if this will get Mitch and others thinking about invoking the 14th Amendment to disqualify Trump. It'dhave been better to convict and disqualify (and not try to have their cake and eat it too by letting him off on procedural arguments), but at least there's still an option.
Not sure how that would work. Elaborate?
Fourteenth Amendment
Section 3
No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
I agree that Congress cannot just pass a resolution on its own without some serious constitutional challenges, but I think if Trump is found guilty in civil/criminal court that they could then plausibly state that it applies.
It was specifically written for participants in the Civil War rebellion. I doubt it could reasonably be made to stick. In fact I don’t see any case of inciting rebellion or sedition succeeding. Georgia’s case would be influencing the administration of an election which is not disqualifying. It could put Trump behind bars where he couldn’t run but I don’t think even the rosiest anti-Trump proponent sees it happening.
And there weren't enough yea votes to build the political will that would allow Biden to back charging Trump in Federal court, even though a majority found him guilty.
In terms of leaving the GOP, it may require those who are anti-Trump/pro-Democracy to put their policy preferences to the side, register as Democrat, and vote in Dem primaries to influence the candidate selection more towards the center so the policy sacrifices needed to stamp out Trump and the anti-democratic movement are minimized.
I would if I could, if it was the party it was even in 1998, but it’s not and I can’t. This is an opportunity for the Dems to open a big tent though. Unfortunately they can’t see it.
It's just something to consider: that the challenge faced may require great sacrifices. If the moderates are the ones winning primaries, then that will feed upward. Leadership has to respect those views, and will then moderate the policies put forth to attract that big tent.
I for one would rather see more politically realistic policies than the GND.
This is gonna take some time, though.
In other words: force the big tent upon them, and make them jump through the hoops needed to keep it together.
Both well written and well thought out Steve and now the only problem is what to do in trying to move forward. The cost to the republican party has been enormous and many of the state parties have been captured by fools. Think not? One only has to look at Kelli Ward in AZ, a pure crackpot who censured Gov Ducey and others.
It's ultimately the price to be paid to support trump. Enough is never enough. Good people who tried to be loyal without being corrupted by his antics and lies. The biggest question was, could McConnell have brought along enough Senators to convict him? We'll never know but he will always wonder, were there 7 more?
Sadly, it's not just Mitch who will lose, so will the country as a whole. I'm not sure he escapes the trials and tribulations that face him and frankly that may be the only way to end his reign of terror. On a brighter note, he will go down in history books as the worst president ever elected.
I don’t see that as a “brighter note.” He had potential. Even if he lost Nov 3 and conceded he would not have been rated “worst.” It’s sad he flushed it all down the toilet.
My apologies Steve, it was said tongue in cheek. There's nothing "brighter" about any of his antics or his place in history. And, i must correct, Mitch needed ten more votes...do you think he could have gotten them?
Frankly, yes. McConnell could have convinced Schumer to (1) include Kinzinger on the House Managers team, (2) to solicit depositions from relevant witnesses, (3) allow both parties to call pre-negotiated witnesses at trial, and (4) set rules prohibiting Senators from talking to Trump counsel. Those ground rules could have persuaded 9 more Senators (along with his own vote) to convict. I believe it. I think McConnell underestimated Trump’s ability to be a chameleon and to find his audience.
He could also have brought the Senate back from recess immediately and had impeachment proceedings.
Dems sure did screw the pooch on this one.