20 Comments
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Cameron Sprow's avatar

Neither party will spend less, and therein lies the real problem with our national debt.

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SGman's avatar

"Incredible how much anxiety there is over the size of deficits and the debt in advanced economies, and also zero willingness to even entertain higher taxes."

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Kim's avatar

I have spent the last couple hours, listening to Hakeem Jeffries speak on the floor of the house. The last half hour or so he’s been reading letters from the biggest hypocrites in Washington. All the Republicans that wrote to the leaders and told them they could not support bills that hurt the American people. And yet last night while we slept the very same Republicans stood up to support and pass the rule, and I have no doubt the same hypocrites will stand to pass to pass the one big UGLY bill.

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SGman's avatar

Just to say this: the GOP derided/derides Democrats for "tax and spend" policies - but that's the fiscally responsible way to go about it. That derision has led to "don't tax and spend more", which is fiscally irresponsible.

At what point does one look back and reevaluate the parties and their fiscal positions against the narrative?

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Jay Berman's avatar

Think you have already passed that point.

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SGman's avatar
2dEdited

Have we though? Because who are the hypocrites that Steve is referring to? To my perspective that's the GOP for proclaiming fiscal responsibility while being massively irresponsible for decades.

Even still Steve is calling "tax and spend" hypocritical instead of being the only responsible approach towards government budgets - determine spending priorities and set taxes accordingly in order to pay for it, ideally without having to use debt to fund it (though debt is sometimes necessary).

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Steve Berman's avatar

Gotta read in context. The hypocrites are in both parties and they only care about the debt when the other party is in power. But not with this bill.

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SGman's avatar

I disagree, based on the fact that Democrats want to pay for spending via tax revenues and that Clinton left office with the US on track to eliminate the debt within 15 years. Then the GOP cut taxes in 2001 and 2003, and again in 2017.

Unfortunately the GOP has done a bang-up job of attacking taxation, making it highly unlikely we'll ever get into a fiscally sane framework.

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Scott C.'s avatar

It's amazing to me how easily Steve lies to himself about this with all the evidence of it being the opposite. It's like a religion to him.

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Curtis Stinespring's avatar

Maybe a more fiscally responsible policy would be tax and cut spending. That's my idea of a compromise.

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SGman's avatar

Taxes will need to go up in order to pay off our debt. Spending will still happen, with some targeted cuts - and there's always need for investment in public infrastructure (which pays dividends in growth/production).

The main thing is to pay for what we decide to spend.

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Curtis Stinespring's avatar

And we are back where we started. Each side wants their own spending programs and taxes to support them. It's the system that evolved since there has been no expectation of honorable men in public service. So, we now pick the men whose rhetoric most closely matches our individual philosophy. All the while, special interest groups and individuals provide the real cash incentives. My prediction is the nanny state will prevail in a few generations.

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SGman's avatar

Spending programs, sure. But cutting taxes while increasing spending is insane.

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Curtis Stinespring's avatar

Why spending programs sure but cutting spending a no-no? Makes no sense to me but it's the root of the problem.

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SGman's avatar

I agreed that both want their spending programs.

The difference is one party wants to pay for it and the other doesn't.

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SGman's avatar

"Reagan promised tax cuts would pay for themselves. Blew out the deficit.

Bush promised tax cuts would pay for themselves. Blew out the deficit.

Trump promised tax cuts would pay for themselves. Blew out the deficit.

Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me four times...?"

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Curtis Stinespring's avatar

Because overspending is a joint effort. I believe revenue did increase.

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SGman's avatar

"Overspending" is when you spend more than you take in.

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