Dec 20, 2021Liked by Chris J. Karr, David Thornton
A couple of quick thoughts before i bid adieu to all of you at The Racket. Exceptional article again David as your ability to use a common sense approach to the complicated issues we all face is so needed. Tribalism makes it near on impossible to have a legitimate discussion regarding what has happened the past 5 plus years.
I have no interest in seeing any of the rioters jailed for any length of time. 6 months or a year or two for the worst of them is adequate. Hopefully it will give them time to come to grips with what they did was wrong and make amends. I know, so very liberal of me, but lengthy incarcerations often produce outcomes that are counter-productive.
I am however hell-bent on finding answers to the bigger questions: Why did it take so long for the military to be called out? Did did someone stonewall it? Did someone take some of the rioters through the capital the day (or two) before so they knew the layout? Was there direct communication between trump and others who could have/should have stopped it? Was there direction provided by the speakers at the rally that helps insure the dupes do their bidding?
Maybe we'll never know. That said, if they keep digging, the lies eventually come crashing down and if there was some of this country's leadership involved in the actions of January 6, the y should be held accountable. I know that is word most these days find difficult, but unless or until we become accountable for our actions, nothing will change.
Special thanks to you and the rest of the Racket bunch. It's been a fun ride. Sometimes frustrating, sometimes fascinating and sometimes, just enlightening. Since i was taken off your mailing list i have to search for the articles and the message rings through loud and clear. You can't preach accountability and then when someone deems your actions to be unacceptable and removes you, i can take a hint.
I'm hoping that they're keeping their Insurrection Powder dry for Donnie. To recap:
"Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."
Given Trump's delay in doing anything to quell what was going on down the street at Congress, there's a case to be made that he was certainly assisting the Insurrectionists on Capitol Hill by delaying the deployment of the National Guard and other resources to restore order quickly and efficiently.
It's probably a long shot and not something Santa's going to leave in our stockings Friday night, but we can certainly dream.
The first illegal entry into the Capitol occurred shortly after 1:45 p.m. Mr. Trump did not go into the fray with a police baton to beat back rioters, but he did encourage the mob to stand down using social media. He even released a video to that effect. It was deleted by Twitter. All of this occurred before 3:30 p.m. The first National Guard troops arrived about 5:40 p.m.
I have served as an officer in the US Army on active duty and in the Reserves in Atlanta. I had the riot training and the call up plans if needed. I can state with absolute certainty that a four-hour deployment of reserve troops in an urban area is miraculous.
"He even released a video to that effect. It was deleted by Twitter. All of this occurred before 3:30 p.m."
Was this video released anywhere else? Where can I see it? Twitter doesn't hold a monopoly on Internet video.
(Just asking because I don't recall this happening at all during the time I watched this unfold in real-time, and would appreciate knowing if/how my recollection is faulty.)
"In the pre-recorded video, Trump said in part, 'I know your pain, I know you’re hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election and everyone knows it, especially the other side. But you have to go home now… This was a fraudulent election, but we can’t play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace. So go home. We love you, you’re very special.'"
"A YouTube rep confirmed the platform removed the video posted this afternoon to Trump’s channel because it 'violated our policies regarding content that alleges widespread fraud or errors changed the outcome of the 2020 U.S. Election.' However, YouTube will allow copies of the video if it is uploaded by other users 'with additional context and sufficient educational, documentary, scientific or artistic (EDSA) value,' the rep added. The Google-owned video site adopted the policy last month."
...
"Trump (or a member of his staff) posted the video to social media Wednesday at about 4:17 p.m. ET after a mob of pro-Trump rioters took over the U.S. Capitol and halted the official certification of electoral votes in Congress."
If the President of the United States is incapable of releasing a video (or taking any other form of timely and meaningful action) to quell an insurrection at the Capitol, then he's not only demonstrating that he's not doing his job, but he's also demonstrating that he's incompetent at that job he should be doing.
As the head of the Executive Branch, POTUS is the country's chief law enforcement officer. I don't understand why you think his inability to release a video (or do anything else) to stop the sacking of the Capitol is exculpatory.
No exculpation intended, just facts. The riot was over in about three hours. As opposed to about ten days at the White House. You guys probably still call it a peaceful protest.
I do not remember the sequence as you describe so I wanted to recheck myself. Start time, check. The president's first communication was a twitter statement at 2:38 (earlier than I remembered) about the Capitol Police that does end with "Stay peaceful". The twitter video you mention was at 4:17. The next communication was not until 6:01, a statement via twitter. A mixed message of empathy for his supporters with a call for people to go home, and ends with "Remember this day forever!" (This timeline is toward the end of a lengthy 2020 saga of endorsing uncivil behavior. Just scroll through it to get to the J6 date.)
I appreciate the link. The timeline appears to be accurate, so you are correct. After looking at the list of advisors and writers, I'm not sure I would trust their opinions and I would look closely at anything they present as facts. Probably a good policy for any source.
This is a more precise description of Twitter's actions.
"Twitter initially prevented users from interacting with Trump’s video tweet but left the post up; however, as of about 6:30 p.m. ET, the tweet was no longer available,"
Leaving the post up means that you can watch it. "Prevented from interacting" means that users were unable to share it on their own timelines, react to it (like it), or reply in a thread.
If we're thinking of the same video (at 4:17pm) - I did see that one. It was VERY weak sauce, but I do recall Twitter locking that one down. It was watchable, but that was it.
And if I'm sucked into the black hole of Christmas after this exchange, please be sure to have a very Merry Christmas. I've enjoyed my time interacting with you this year and look forward to more in 2022.
Dec 20, 2021Liked by Chris J. Karr, David Thornton
I, too, am an internet attorney and also a avid follower of the Jan 6 riots. I saw Scott MacFarlane interview the grand potentate of the DA's over all these cases. Mr. Potentate explained that he gathered all the prosecutors together to decide the charges. Insurrection? That was the first question the had to answer. They decided to go with "interfering with a constitutional act of congress" because it was much broader and had the exact same punishment, the max being 20 yrs. Jan 6 is in the constitution as the date the electors votes must be counted. The rioters by their own admission said that was what they were trying to stop. If you follow the charging docs you will see those charges come up plenty of times and those people usually have weapon charges as well.
So, ta da! you don't see insurrection much because there is another law that is more elastic with the same penalty. All of the militia members are being charged with interference of official business, conspiracy, and weapons. Pretty serious charges and that is why many of them are playing ball with the feds and testifying in front of the grand jury which as been ongoing.
You fail to mention at least three things I find interesting.
The "1882 Law" you quote is from the Georgia Penal Code, 1882 Edition. The insurrection definition is found in Paragraph 4315 on Page 1138 of that code.
The "zip tie guy" did not show up at the Capitol carrying zip ties. He lifted those from a Capitol Police desk at the scene.
The violent protest (a.k.a. riot or insurrection or peaceful protest, depending on political view) at the White House was just as much an assault on Constitutional law as a few serious rioters and a few hundred trespassers at the Capitol.
Until just now, I had not heard of anyone admitting to insurrection as a goal. If some admitted it, as you say they did, they should be charged with sedition and punished proportionately to the severity of their actions if found guilty. Any of the rioters who assaulted LEOs should be charged and tried and punished accordingly if found guilty. The rest were just trespassers.
I need more explanation if I'm to learn what "police riot" means.
Attacking the White House and the officials on guard there endangers the President. From Article 2 of the Constitution "The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America."
BS. "police riot" is as phony as wikipedia. If the White House is under attack, the President is under attack. No different than trespassers in the Capitol except the DOJ is barred from investigating left wing radicals. The progressives cover their asses by re-defining terms to suit their narrative. The idiot, Mazie Hirono, was able to have sexual preference re-defined as a pejorative term.
Dec 21, 2021·edited Dec 21, 2021Liked by Chris J. Karr
I saw the projectiles and the injured security personnel. The DOJ has been doing its own thing for years. Changing the guy at the top just brings in another progressive. And yes, Trump misplaced his trust with some of his appointees. The fact is, they were attacking the White House.
The Capitol Building was under attack. That's a few blks away from the WH. That building houses the legislative branch of the the gov not the executive.
The feds have made inroads with the Oath Keepers and today a head Proud Boy has made a deal. He will still do prison time but not nearly so much as he would have. Charges include conspiracy and interference with the legislature. The feds brought the receipts. The baddies were using an encryption app and apparently it was old school because their texts were easily unencrypted.
A couple of quick thoughts before i bid adieu to all of you at The Racket. Exceptional article again David as your ability to use a common sense approach to the complicated issues we all face is so needed. Tribalism makes it near on impossible to have a legitimate discussion regarding what has happened the past 5 plus years.
I have no interest in seeing any of the rioters jailed for any length of time. 6 months or a year or two for the worst of them is adequate. Hopefully it will give them time to come to grips with what they did was wrong and make amends. I know, so very liberal of me, but lengthy incarcerations often produce outcomes that are counter-productive.
I am however hell-bent on finding answers to the bigger questions: Why did it take so long for the military to be called out? Did did someone stonewall it? Did someone take some of the rioters through the capital the day (or two) before so they knew the layout? Was there direct communication between trump and others who could have/should have stopped it? Was there direction provided by the speakers at the rally that helps insure the dupes do their bidding?
Maybe we'll never know. That said, if they keep digging, the lies eventually come crashing down and if there was some of this country's leadership involved in the actions of January 6, the y should be held accountable. I know that is word most these days find difficult, but unless or until we become accountable for our actions, nothing will change.
Special thanks to you and the rest of the Racket bunch. It's been a fun ride. Sometimes frustrating, sometimes fascinating and sometimes, just enlightening. Since i was taken off your mailing list i have to search for the articles and the message rings through loud and clear. You can't preach accountability and then when someone deems your actions to be unacceptable and removes you, i can take a hint.
Merry Christmas to all.
I'm sorry you’ve had problems. Is there some subscription issue that we can troubleshoot?
You can also get the articles directly on Facebook and Twitter.
You can email us directly at The Racket <theracketnews@gmail.com>
I am not happy to see you go, Bill. I don't know what happened, but I have appreciated your discernment and well written responses. Take care!
I'm hoping that they're keeping their Insurrection Powder dry for Donnie. To recap:
"Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."
Given Trump's delay in doing anything to quell what was going on down the street at Congress, there's a case to be made that he was certainly assisting the Insurrectionists on Capitol Hill by delaying the deployment of the National Guard and other resources to restore order quickly and efficiently.
It's probably a long shot and not something Santa's going to leave in our stockings Friday night, but we can certainly dream.
You are dreaming if you think they are going to charge Trump with anything.
It's more exciting than the actuarial tables.
The first illegal entry into the Capitol occurred shortly after 1:45 p.m. Mr. Trump did not go into the fray with a police baton to beat back rioters, but he did encourage the mob to stand down using social media. He even released a video to that effect. It was deleted by Twitter. All of this occurred before 3:30 p.m. The first National Guard troops arrived about 5:40 p.m.
I have served as an officer in the US Army on active duty and in the Reserves in Atlanta. I had the riot training and the call up plans if needed. I can state with absolute certainty that a four-hour deployment of reserve troops in an urban area is miraculous.
"He even released a video to that effect. It was deleted by Twitter. All of this occurred before 3:30 p.m."
Was this video released anywhere else? Where can I see it? Twitter doesn't hold a monopoly on Internet video.
(Just asking because I don't recall this happening at all during the time I watched this unfold in real-time, and would appreciate knowing if/how my recollection is faulty.)
I do not know. All I know about Twitter is that it was well known to be Mr. Trump's preferred method of communicating.
This looks like it may have been the one[1]?
"In the pre-recorded video, Trump said in part, 'I know your pain, I know you’re hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election and everyone knows it, especially the other side. But you have to go home now… This was a fraudulent election, but we can’t play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace. So go home. We love you, you’re very special.'"
"A YouTube rep confirmed the platform removed the video posted this afternoon to Trump’s channel because it 'violated our policies regarding content that alleges widespread fraud or errors changed the outcome of the 2020 U.S. Election.' However, YouTube will allow copies of the video if it is uploaded by other users 'with additional context and sufficient educational, documentary, scientific or artistic (EDSA) value,' the rep added. The Google-owned video site adopted the policy last month."
...
"Trump (or a member of his staff) posted the video to social media Wednesday at about 4:17 p.m. ET after a mob of pro-Trump rioters took over the U.S. Capitol and halted the official certification of electoral votes in Congress."
[1] https://variety.com/2021/digital/news/facebook-youtube-twitter-delete-trump-video-rioters-risk-violence-1234880063/
Could be. The video was not made available to readers.
If the President of the United States is incapable of releasing a video (or taking any other form of timely and meaningful action) to quell an insurrection at the Capitol, then he's not only demonstrating that he's not doing his job, but he's also demonstrating that he's incompetent at that job he should be doing.
As the head of the Executive Branch, POTUS is the country's chief law enforcement officer. I don't understand why you think his inability to release a video (or do anything else) to stop the sacking of the Capitol is exculpatory.
No exculpation intended, just facts. The riot was over in about three hours. As opposed to about ten days at the White House. You guys probably still call it a peaceful protest.
'cause it's an indefensible position, and there's naught but grasping at straws.
I do not remember the sequence as you describe so I wanted to recheck myself. Start time, check. The president's first communication was a twitter statement at 2:38 (earlier than I remembered) about the Capitol Police that does end with "Stay peaceful". The twitter video you mention was at 4:17. The next communication was not until 6:01, a statement via twitter. A mixed message of empathy for his supporters with a call for people to go home, and ends with "Remember this day forever!" (This timeline is toward the end of a lengthy 2020 saga of endorsing uncivil behavior. Just scroll through it to get to the J6 date.)
https://www.justsecurity.org/74138/incitement-timeline-year-of-trumps-actions-leading-to-the-attack-on-the-capitol/
I appreciate the link. The timeline appears to be accurate, so you are correct. After looking at the list of advisors and writers, I'm not sure I would trust their opinions and I would look closely at anything they present as facts. Probably a good policy for any source.
This is a more precise description of Twitter's actions.
"Twitter initially prevented users from interacting with Trump’s video tweet but left the post up; however, as of about 6:30 p.m. ET, the tweet was no longer available,"
https://variety.com/2021/digital/news/facebook-youtube-twitter-delete-trump-video-rioters-risk-violence-1234880063/
Twitter did not delete but made it unavailable to readers for several hours before it was deleted.
Leaving the post up means that you can watch it. "Prevented from interacting" means that users were unable to share it on their own timelines, react to it (like it), or reply in a thread.
If we're thinking of the same video (at 4:17pm) - I did see that one. It was VERY weak sauce, but I do recall Twitter locking that one down. It was watchable, but that was it.
Thanks for explaining Twitter nuances. I now know more than I did.
I'm pleased to be of assistance.
And if I'm sucked into the black hole of Christmas after this exchange, please be sure to have a very Merry Christmas. I've enjoyed my time interacting with you this year and look forward to more in 2022.
I, too, am an internet attorney and also a avid follower of the Jan 6 riots. I saw Scott MacFarlane interview the grand potentate of the DA's over all these cases. Mr. Potentate explained that he gathered all the prosecutors together to decide the charges. Insurrection? That was the first question the had to answer. They decided to go with "interfering with a constitutional act of congress" because it was much broader and had the exact same punishment, the max being 20 yrs. Jan 6 is in the constitution as the date the electors votes must be counted. The rioters by their own admission said that was what they were trying to stop. If you follow the charging docs you will see those charges come up plenty of times and those people usually have weapon charges as well.
So, ta da! you don't see insurrection much because there is another law that is more elastic with the same penalty. All of the militia members are being charged with interference of official business, conspiracy, and weapons. Pretty serious charges and that is why many of them are playing ball with the feds and testifying in front of the grand jury which as been ongoing.
You fail to mention at least three things I find interesting.
The "1882 Law" you quote is from the Georgia Penal Code, 1882 Edition. The insurrection definition is found in Paragraph 4315 on Page 1138 of that code.
The "zip tie guy" did not show up at the Capitol carrying zip ties. He lifted those from a Capitol Police desk at the scene.
The violent protest (a.k.a. riot or insurrection or peaceful protest, depending on political view) at the White House was just as much an assault on Constitutional law as a few serious rioters and a few hundred trespassers at the Capitol.
Until just now, I had not heard of anyone admitting to insurrection as a goal. If some admitted it, as you say they did, they should be charged with sedition and punished proportionately to the severity of their actions if found guilty. Any of the rioters who assaulted LEOs should be charged and tried and punished accordingly if found guilty. The rest were just trespassers.
An important term for you to learn: police riot.
What constitutional action was attempting to be thwarted at the White House?
Why do you continue to try to defend the indefensible?
I need more explanation if I'm to learn what "police riot" means.
Attacking the White House and the officials on guard there endangers the President. From Article 2 of the Constitution "The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America."
The President was not under attack.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_riot
BS. "police riot" is as phony as wikipedia. If the White House is under attack, the President is under attack. No different than trespassers in the Capitol except the DOJ is barred from investigating left wing radicals. The progressives cover their asses by re-defining terms to suit their narrative. The idiot, Mazie Hirono, was able to have sexual preference re-defined as a pejorative term.
Ah yes, the good ol' "deny a real thing exists" defense.
The White House wasn't under attack.
The DOJ was under GOP control at the time.
Quit deflecting. You're not looking good, ol' man.
I saw the projectiles and the injured security personnel. The DOJ has been doing its own thing for years. Changing the guy at the top just brings in another progressive. And yes, Trump misplaced his trust with some of his appointees. The fact is, they were attacking the White House.
The Capitol Building was under attack. That's a few blks away from the WH. That building houses the legislative branch of the the gov not the executive.
True but the time frame is different. The violence at the White House occurred months before the Capitol riot.
The feds have made inroads with the Oath Keepers and today a head Proud Boy has made a deal. He will still do prison time but not nearly so much as he would have. Charges include conspiracy and interference with the legislature. The feds brought the receipts. The baddies were using an encryption app and apparently it was old school because their texts were easily unencrypted.