There *is* a migrant problem, but it's not the one illuminated by the statistics. Many migrants are attracted to/bused in to places like NYC, Boston and Chicago. Those places have "must shelter" laws for homeless and are also "sanctuary cities", refusing to honor or cooperate with ICE detainers. Once there, these migrants, while they process their interminable paperwork for refugee status and a work authorization, consume an enormous amount of resources. They must be housed, fed, and kept from resorting to criminal activity. However, without the ability to work, and limited (in NYC, they're evicting people from the shelters and hotels) housing options, what else do these people have to do but join moped-driving gangs of organized criminals, or survive in squalor? They can't move, because moving to another city invalidates their paperwork.
Our system is broken at the bones. I hate the idea of "camps" but yes, I'd have the federal government use some of the zillions of acres out west to build a whole migrant city, allow companies to set up there with special work authorizations and permits, only good within the city, and let the cream rise and the crime get booted. When paperwork is completed and people have served a year or two in the special zone, they can go out and work anywhere. This would not limit migrants from living where they want--not a prison or concentration camp--but a place they can work and be productive versus getting dumped in a big city where they are becoming a contentious issue (that's giving xenophobes a point to make).
Here in Chicago, the migrant situation is a mess. There are plenty of folks here ready to work, but cannot due to not having the proper work permits, which can take 6 months to acquire. A great example of this dysfunction are the migrants who were arrested for cutting hair a few months back:
I'm also a fan of the migrant camps (I've called them Asylum Cities when I talk about them), and you've nailed the same approach I've been arguing for. I'd add one more thing to your list of things that can happen in those cities, and that's a training and educational component. You'll get migrants with skills who are ill-equipped to integrate with the American economy, so something akin to a trade school program (sponsored by companies) that take unskilled workers and train them to meet a domestic demand would give these folks a better chance to succeed AS AMERICANS, contributing needed skills to local economies, paying taxes, etc.
I’d love to set up a foundation to get the necessary land, permits and a law granting a special economic immigration zone then partner with companies willing to fund housing, training, schools and factories in the zone.
And thanks for layering an additional level of details upon David’s examination. I am ignorant of the complexities. Camps have a bad connotation though.
Data matters, it always has, it always should. 20 years retired now, i still remember the transition in packing houses from good old farm boys, to younger, smaller Latino's who suddenly appeared in small town USA. It was fast and impactful. And often led and fed by the employer.
The lament has long been "they are taking our jobs." Were they? As we touted everyone should go to college, trade schools became less a thing. 20 years ago the growth industries were retail and service sectors and anything medical related. The challenges were the first two were always low end wages and minimal benefits. The health care side was a little better, at least in jobs with schooling attached.
I marvel every day at how times have changed. Over the road truck drivers are in high demand with great wages and benefits (listen to the ads from the biggest like Wal Mart). Building trades are scrambling to find enough skilled workers, a career that was envied by many when they were "good union jobs." Those trade schools, apprentice programs haven't kept pace with the needs of the marketplace.
And through it all, immigrants have filled open positions in numbers that are staggering. Staggering. This country should have adopted/embraced immigration reform years ago. Instead, it became a political football.
Sadly it was just over 10 years ago when Lindsey Graham said this: "“I think 2013 is the year of immigration reform,” The gang of 8 was on board and this was once and for all going to be pushed over the goal line. Yea, right. Looks like everyone was doing their jobs but the house and senate.
My biggest problem is my tendency to look back at what was. Looking forward is terrifying; we see artificial intelligence predictions that explode the workforce of tomorrow. On one hand we hear about 4 day work weeks and on the other billionaire's like Jamie Dimon telling seniors to work much later in life.
Then, if you want the cruelest cut of all; how about those progressive red states urging child labor laws to be changed to allow 14 year olds into the workplace. How far we've come eh? Shades of Upton Sinclair's The Jungle...revisited?
The ultimate question for filling jobs with minors is simple: Are we talking the children of the immigrants or are we talking about those pushing that kind of legislation shoving their kids on to the killing floor? We all know the answer to that don't we?
The jobs you refer to as "good union jobs" are still there in about half the states and there are shortages in those states. What's the rest of the story?
Fourteen-year-old workers might not be a good idea for safety and health reasons, but they might learn more than they would in school.
Sorry Dave, but your description of immigration as a positive does not match what people see with their own eyes. They see hospital ERs overcrowded with routine care patients who require interpreters. They see schools equally overcrowded with student who require special instruction to learn English. The arrest reports in the local newspapers list at least 50% Hispanic surnames. The argument about crime rates is not logical regarding illegals.
I read a bit of the Freakonomics transcript. It indicated that assimilation made immigration successful in the USA. What assimilation? Immigrants still converse in the language of their parents. High school and colleges students still protest waving the flags of their parents’ native country. Adults chant “death to America” in Dearborn. Immigrants and their offspring grow in numbers sufficient to elect un-American representatives to Congress. Like Obama, their goal is to fundamentally change America.
Regarding STEM education and lack of high-tech workers. Does it make sense to replace an entire generation of uneducated Americans with immigrants. Without changes to the education system, in another generation we will be in the same predicament. It would make more sense to replace the educators who think algebra, correct answers, homework and testing are racist. States are shirking their responsibilities. The Department of Education is useless and is concerned more with DEI than education. The one useful thing they could do is establish curriculum standards, but they are more concerned with equity.
The biggest labor demand is in the skilled trades. There are a number of large industries in northeast Georgia offering really good pay in fields such as metal fabrication, equipment manufacturing, trucking, and maintenance technicians. All require a good work ethic and reliability. The education system needs to adjust to this and eliminate the soft subjects that people who can read can learn about on their own. The system should not be promoting college for everyone or every occupation.
Your immigration “facts” are a hodgepodge of illegal and legal immigration statistics that do not reflect reality. While it is true that controlled legal immigration (1,000,000 or so per year) can produce positive results, illegal immigration will not. Neither will flying in several hundred thousand unvetted foreigners per year for so-called humanitarian reasons. This is especially true with numbers as high as several million a year allowed under the Biden administration.
There are plenty of indications that illegal immigration, which includes phony asylum claims, is an economic drain on this nation’s resources. The only benefit appears to be cheap labor.
"The arrest reports in the local newspapers list at least 50% Hispanic surnames."
Just a reminder that there are VAST parts of this country where those who first settled here HAD Hispanic surnames, and have been settled here for decades, if not centuries, longer than those without Hispanic surnames.
As I (and Reagan) said, many people know things that aren’t so. Impressions and anecdotes may reflect a data point but not the totality of the data. And quite a few political actors have vested interests in making the problem seem different and worse than it is.
No one is talking about replacing Americans, but I’d rather have high tech immigrants working here than for our competitors, especially if we train them.
And as I said, your description is not what people see. Sorta like Bidenomics spin. Millions of illegals with court dates several years in the future are not a positive. The backlog is now about 3,000,000.
I would rather not have immigrants working on high tech - especially where national security is involved. Tech employees, even citizens, are revolting against military contracts. Sabotage is a risk that has to be minimized. I'm sure you do whatever you can to minimize risk to your flights. I would do the same for all systems control technology. If I could, I would totally replace the education system.
Well, now you're getting into vibes instead of facts - and that's driven by media consumption.
When polled, people say they themselves are doing just fine - they think everyone else is suffering. That's 'cause the media they consume tells them this, rather than the reality that people are generally making more money and spending less on living costs than other points in history.
An anecdote: one of the developers of 5G wireless technology went to college here in the US. He could not stay due to our visa laws, and went to China instead. Now Huawei owns thousands of patients on it, rather than a US company.
We need to keep talent here, rather than force them out.
And overhauling our education system to have earlier focus on advanced maths, while a decent idea as it pertains to developing talent, is going to take a long time and has to deal with headwinds like those that want to dismantle the public education system in general - which will result in more need for talent from elsewhere.
I suppose one anecdote deserves another. Nidal Hassan, a first generation American born to naturalized parents of Palestinian origin, was a US Army doctor who shot and killed thirteen American servicemen at Fort Hood.
If the 5G developer really wanted freedom and democracy, he could have chosen the UK or Canada instead of China. Which provision of the immigration laws prevented him from applying for citizenship? Should he have even been allowed a student visa? Is your comment media driven?
Sorry. Not allowed to read beyond "million talents needed". Maybe you can just condense it to a couple of sentences. I'm willing to research it if you give me some pertinent information on the 5G developer who was denied citizenship. None of my search terms got any results on the first pages. I did get this: https://www.usimmigration.org/articles/common-reasons-a-citizenship-application-is-denied
Regarding the Army physician at Fort Hood, medicine is a fairly high-tech field. The principle is the same regarding trust.
Good piece, David—I enjoyed it. One thing that I’m genuinely curious about though…
“On immigration as with many other issues, I’m reminded of Ronald Reagan’s observation, “The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.” These days Reagan’s quip applies to both parties and I’m not even going to begin to assess which side knows more that isn’t so. Both cling to conventional wisdom that is often wrong and immigration is often a good case in point.”
I come at this from the left, and I was very interested in reading your take on the data and statistics to see what beliefs/assumptions that I (and more broadly “the left”) might have. However, after reading your whole article, I’m left thinking all of the misinformation is on the right! What did I miss that the data shows the left is misguided on?
There *is* a migrant problem, but it's not the one illuminated by the statistics. Many migrants are attracted to/bused in to places like NYC, Boston and Chicago. Those places have "must shelter" laws for homeless and are also "sanctuary cities", refusing to honor or cooperate with ICE detainers. Once there, these migrants, while they process their interminable paperwork for refugee status and a work authorization, consume an enormous amount of resources. They must be housed, fed, and kept from resorting to criminal activity. However, without the ability to work, and limited (in NYC, they're evicting people from the shelters and hotels) housing options, what else do these people have to do but join moped-driving gangs of organized criminals, or survive in squalor? They can't move, because moving to another city invalidates their paperwork.
Our system is broken at the bones. I hate the idea of "camps" but yes, I'd have the federal government use some of the zillions of acres out west to build a whole migrant city, allow companies to set up there with special work authorizations and permits, only good within the city, and let the cream rise and the crime get booted. When paperwork is completed and people have served a year or two in the special zone, they can go out and work anywhere. This would not limit migrants from living where they want--not a prison or concentration camp--but a place they can work and be productive versus getting dumped in a big city where they are becoming a contentious issue (that's giving xenophobes a point to make).
There are not enough likes to give this comment.
Here in Chicago, the migrant situation is a mess. There are plenty of folks here ready to work, but cannot due to not having the proper work permits, which can take 6 months to acquire. A great example of this dysfunction are the migrants who were arrested for cutting hair a few months back:
https://blockclubchicago.org/2023/09/07/migrant-barbers-arrested-ticketed-for-cutting-hair-without-license-downtown/
I'm also a fan of the migrant camps (I've called them Asylum Cities when I talk about them), and you've nailed the same approach I've been arguing for. I'd add one more thing to your list of things that can happen in those cities, and that's a training and educational component. You'll get migrants with skills who are ill-equipped to integrate with the American economy, so something akin to a trade school program (sponsored by companies) that take unskilled workers and train them to meet a domestic demand would give these folks a better chance to succeed AS AMERICANS, contributing needed skills to local economies, paying taxes, etc.
I’d love to set up a foundation to get the necessary land, permits and a law granting a special economic immigration zone then partner with companies willing to fund housing, training, schools and factories in the zone.
And thanks for layering an additional level of details upon David’s examination. I am ignorant of the complexities. Camps have a bad connotation though.
Thank you. Thoughtful with much detail to digest.
Data matters, it always has, it always should. 20 years retired now, i still remember the transition in packing houses from good old farm boys, to younger, smaller Latino's who suddenly appeared in small town USA. It was fast and impactful. And often led and fed by the employer.
The lament has long been "they are taking our jobs." Were they? As we touted everyone should go to college, trade schools became less a thing. 20 years ago the growth industries were retail and service sectors and anything medical related. The challenges were the first two were always low end wages and minimal benefits. The health care side was a little better, at least in jobs with schooling attached.
I marvel every day at how times have changed. Over the road truck drivers are in high demand with great wages and benefits (listen to the ads from the biggest like Wal Mart). Building trades are scrambling to find enough skilled workers, a career that was envied by many when they were "good union jobs." Those trade schools, apprentice programs haven't kept pace with the needs of the marketplace.
And through it all, immigrants have filled open positions in numbers that are staggering. Staggering. This country should have adopted/embraced immigration reform years ago. Instead, it became a political football.
Sadly it was just over 10 years ago when Lindsey Graham said this: "“I think 2013 is the year of immigration reform,” The gang of 8 was on board and this was once and for all going to be pushed over the goal line. Yea, right. Looks like everyone was doing their jobs but the house and senate.
My biggest problem is my tendency to look back at what was. Looking forward is terrifying; we see artificial intelligence predictions that explode the workforce of tomorrow. On one hand we hear about 4 day work weeks and on the other billionaire's like Jamie Dimon telling seniors to work much later in life.
Then, if you want the cruelest cut of all; how about those progressive red states urging child labor laws to be changed to allow 14 year olds into the workplace. How far we've come eh? Shades of Upton Sinclair's The Jungle...revisited?
The ultimate question for filling jobs with minors is simple: Are we talking the children of the immigrants or are we talking about those pushing that kind of legislation shoving their kids on to the killing floor? We all know the answer to that don't we?
The jobs you refer to as "good union jobs" are still there in about half the states and there are shortages in those states. What's the rest of the story?
Fourteen-year-old workers might not be a good idea for safety and health reasons, but they might learn more than they would in school.
Sorry Dave, but your description of immigration as a positive does not match what people see with their own eyes. They see hospital ERs overcrowded with routine care patients who require interpreters. They see schools equally overcrowded with student who require special instruction to learn English. The arrest reports in the local newspapers list at least 50% Hispanic surnames. The argument about crime rates is not logical regarding illegals.
I read a bit of the Freakonomics transcript. It indicated that assimilation made immigration successful in the USA. What assimilation? Immigrants still converse in the language of their parents. High school and colleges students still protest waving the flags of their parents’ native country. Adults chant “death to America” in Dearborn. Immigrants and their offspring grow in numbers sufficient to elect un-American representatives to Congress. Like Obama, their goal is to fundamentally change America.
Regarding STEM education and lack of high-tech workers. Does it make sense to replace an entire generation of uneducated Americans with immigrants. Without changes to the education system, in another generation we will be in the same predicament. It would make more sense to replace the educators who think algebra, correct answers, homework and testing are racist. States are shirking their responsibilities. The Department of Education is useless and is concerned more with DEI than education. The one useful thing they could do is establish curriculum standards, but they are more concerned with equity.
The biggest labor demand is in the skilled trades. There are a number of large industries in northeast Georgia offering really good pay in fields such as metal fabrication, equipment manufacturing, trucking, and maintenance technicians. All require a good work ethic and reliability. The education system needs to adjust to this and eliminate the soft subjects that people who can read can learn about on their own. The system should not be promoting college for everyone or every occupation.
Your immigration “facts” are a hodgepodge of illegal and legal immigration statistics that do not reflect reality. While it is true that controlled legal immigration (1,000,000 or so per year) can produce positive results, illegal immigration will not. Neither will flying in several hundred thousand unvetted foreigners per year for so-called humanitarian reasons. This is especially true with numbers as high as several million a year allowed under the Biden administration.
There are plenty of indications that illegal immigration, which includes phony asylum claims, is an economic drain on this nation’s resources. The only benefit appears to be cheap labor.
HHRG-118-JU01-Wstate-CamarotaS-20240111.pdf (congress.gov)
The Cost of Illegal Immigration to American Taxpayers 2023 (fairus.org)
HHRG-118-JU01-Wstate-CamarotaS-20240111.pdf (congress.gov)
The Cost of Illegal Immigration to American Taxpayers 2023 (fairus.org)
"The arrest reports in the local newspapers list at least 50% Hispanic surnames."
Just a reminder that there are VAST parts of this country where those who first settled here HAD Hispanic surnames, and have been settled here for decades, if not centuries, longer than those without Hispanic surnames.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Empire
Not in northeast Georgia. This is not The Land of Enchantment.
It was Hernando de Soto's stomping grounds, even if none of the Spanish colonies really lasted long north of Florida.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hernando_de_Soto
As I (and Reagan) said, many people know things that aren’t so. Impressions and anecdotes may reflect a data point but not the totality of the data. And quite a few political actors have vested interests in making the problem seem different and worse than it is.
No one is talking about replacing Americans, but I’d rather have high tech immigrants working here than for our competitors, especially if we train them.
And as I said, your description is not what people see. Sorta like Bidenomics spin. Millions of illegals with court dates several years in the future are not a positive. The backlog is now about 3,000,000.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/12/27/immigration-court-backlog-grows/72030952007/
I would rather not have immigrants working on high tech - especially where national security is involved. Tech employees, even citizens, are revolting against military contracts. Sabotage is a risk that has to be minimized. I'm sure you do whatever you can to minimize risk to your flights. I would do the same for all systems control technology. If I could, I would totally replace the education system.
Well, now you're getting into vibes instead of facts - and that's driven by media consumption.
When polled, people say they themselves are doing just fine - they think everyone else is suffering. That's 'cause the media they consume tells them this, rather than the reality that people are generally making more money and spending less on living costs than other points in history.
An anecdote: one of the developers of 5G wireless technology went to college here in the US. He could not stay due to our visa laws, and went to China instead. Now Huawei owns thousands of patients on it, rather than a US company.
We need to keep talent here, rather than force them out.
And overhauling our education system to have earlier focus on advanced maths, while a decent idea as it pertains to developing talent, is going to take a long time and has to deal with headwinds like those that want to dismantle the public education system in general - which will result in more need for talent from elsewhere.
I suppose one anecdote deserves another. Nidal Hassan, a first generation American born to naturalized parents of Palestinian origin, was a US Army doctor who shot and killed thirteen American servicemen at Fort Hood.
If the 5G developer really wanted freedom and democracy, he could have chosen the UK or Canada instead of China. Which provision of the immigration laws prevented him from applying for citizenship? Should he have even been allowed a student visa? Is your comment media driven?
Congrats, you've found a non-high tech example: now find the resulting percentage of issues.
More importantly: born here, so not an immigrant.
You can read the relevant parts of his story here: https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/16/immigration-us-technology-companies-work-visas-china-talent-competition-universities/
Sorry. Not allowed to read beyond "million talents needed". Maybe you can just condense it to a couple of sentences. I'm willing to research it if you give me some pertinent information on the 5G developer who was denied citizenship. None of my search terms got any results on the first pages. I did get this: https://www.usimmigration.org/articles/common-reasons-a-citizenship-application-is-denied
Regarding the Army physician at Fort Hood, medicine is a fairly high-tech field. The principle is the same regarding trust.
Good piece, David—I enjoyed it. One thing that I’m genuinely curious about though…
“On immigration as with many other issues, I’m reminded of Ronald Reagan’s observation, “The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.” These days Reagan’s quip applies to both parties and I’m not even going to begin to assess which side knows more that isn’t so. Both cling to conventional wisdom that is often wrong and immigration is often a good case in point.”
I come at this from the left, and I was very interested in reading your take on the data and statistics to see what beliefs/assumptions that I (and more broadly “the left”) might have. However, after reading your whole article, I’m left thinking all of the misinformation is on the right! What did I miss that the data shows the left is misguided on?